overplayed?

LoNeLyAcEs · #1 08-26-2007, 02:58 PM

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
10 players

Stack sizes:
Hero: $10.95
UTG+1: $9.00
UTG+2: $7.70
MP1: $10.25
MP2: $39.80
MP3: $9.60
CO: $23.00
Button: $24.30
SB: $6.85
BB: $10.45

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, 7 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (10.6SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (9.3BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (13.3BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 15.3BB
UTG+1 shows AC10D 
Hero shows QD KS

Aaron W. · #2 08-26-2007, 03:01 PM

Don't post results, but do post reads.

I don't like the flop donk, but given that you did, it's fine up to the turn. You should probably fold the river because the only had you beat now is KJ.

LoNeLyAcEs · #3 08-26-2007, 03:06 PM

villain is 22,18,3

why don't you like the donk? i'm going for the 3 bet here

i know i should have probabaly folded the river but i didn't because i was curious what he was 3-betting with + pot huge so only a very minor mistake...

Aaron W. · #4 08-26-2007, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why don't you like the donk? i'm going for the 3 bet here

[/ QUOTE ]

On this board, I check-raise and hope to cap against AK. Since you've got KQ, there is only one KK combo, one QQ combo, three JJ combos, and 8 AK combos.

[ QUOTE ]
i know i should have probabaly folded the river but i didn't because i was curious what he was 3-betting with + pot huge so only a very minor mistake...

[/ QUOTE ]

Curiosity is often -EV. Calling on the end is probably a rather large .5-.7 BB mistake.

Buzz-cp · #5 08-26-2007, 03:59 PM

ug turn bet/call, just calldown after flop cap.

Bigka79 · #6 08-26-2007, 04:47 PM

yea i think im slwoin down at the turn. dont mind the flop i think a lot of hands that give action are behind. i think this was played well until the turn. we are commiting too much on the turn by betting out. i think we should know we'll get raised and just c/c to river for what u were planning on putting in on the turn

Fantam · #7 08-26-2007, 07:13 PM

Yes, I would also have preferred check raising the flop as opposed to bet/3-betting.

As Aaron said dont call bets out of curiousity. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Point Blank · #8 08-26-2007, 07:57 PM

another 22,18,3 player - you seem to have issues with these guys ...

[ QUOTE ]
i know i should have probabaly folded the river but i didn't because i was curious what he was 3-betting with

[/ QUOTE ]
you should really get this type of though out of your head in a game (it will cost you $$$)

a player of this type is 3betting you rather liberally ... especially if he thinks you are a little weak (or play sub optimally post flop)
A9s, ATo, 77, KJs, KQo (to start with) ... (so pretty much a standard ep open raise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) - sometimes add more pockets

not too sure about the flop donk ... this guy will almost always bet the flop (which will allow you to check raise and trap utg2); however, it could go the other way too: utg2 cold called 3 (so this flop very likely may have connected with him) - so if you donk there is a decent chance that UTG1 will be raising (TP, or draws) and utg2 (calling 3preflop) will now forced payoff even more

so really - there are positives to both actions ... also, going for a check raise can also backfire - this guy can easily check that flop if he didn't hit (given the current situation ... tight utg open raise and a guy that cold call 3 - and this flop sucks something fierce)

on the flop
after you donk-3bet and he caps (which can work for or against you) - he isn't capping the flop light ... either a strong made hand or a really strong draw
...the made hands outweight the draw hands - so I really only want to put in at most 2 more big bets (UI, with no further scare cards)

once the river his you hand worth is pretty much crap and I doubt he would bet that river (after you open raise from utg, and only call his 3bet with a retard cold caller traped ... imo, your hand is rather obvious) without an Ace ... so just fold (who cares what he has)

Gap23Razor · #9 08-26-2007, 08:24 PM

you got some good response to your post and some really good posters weighed in...i agree with them that on the flop when capped it was time for you to slow down, although i must confess their explanations far exceed anything i could provide...

two other areas not discussed, and i hope the more seasoned posters also weigh in...re: raising pre-flop from UTG with KQo...i've done it when i believed the table was playing tight in general, but its something i am cautious about...also, interesting is that the villain iso-raised you with what i would consider another questionable hand ATo under normal circumstances...

is there anything to be inferred by these two actions? the OP is too loose aggressive & the villain sees that and is taking advantage? or villain was just lucky? how should OP adjust his play versus this villain? i would think it ought to be tighted up preflop

BigBadBabar · #10 08-26-2007, 08:35 PM

i always raise utg with kqo fwiw