Please Explain the Stop 'n Go!

[PoineDexter]

I think I have a basic understanding of the Stop & Go but wanted some clarification.

Stop & Go:
You are in early position and make a raise and a re-raise comes behind and instead of shoving or re-raising PF you call with the intention of jamming on any flop

The key points are that you are first to act after the flop and you make a big bet (usually AI) regardless of what comes on the flop.

Questions:

1) is this assessment correct?

2) Can this be done from the blinds in response to a raise? That is to call the raise and jam on the flop. Is this the same premise?

3) Do you try this if you are deep or is it always an AI move after committing a large portion of your stack calling the PF raise (or re-raise)? I get the feeling it is more of a stack rebuilding kind of move with significant blind/ante dollars in the middle PF and a declining M.

4) Is it a relative stack dependent move? Are there any considerations (opponent style, stack sizes) that make this a less effective or more effective proposition?

Can anyone help me with this?

[xxGreat1xx]

I might be wrong but what you describe is a version of it, but from all I have heard it is when you have ~10bb left and you cc a raise from the sb or bb and as long as you are first to act you shove the flop no matter what. Works every time but the last

[Dave D]

To answer your questions:

Usually you don't put in a raise at all with a SnG. Its that someone else raised, and you call, and then jam the flop. Not raise, reraise. It's usually done to get more FE than a push PF.

I think the most common example actually is when you're in the blinds and someone in LP open raises, you call, and then push the flop.

It's usually done when you're short to try to increase your Fold Equity because you're so short that a push PF doesn't look that scary but the chips you win after a SnG are huge for you.

Usually a SnG is more effective against someone with a decent stack. A shorty is probably just gonna be pot committed to call your push on the flop.

I think there's at least something in the faq about this.

[BAK]

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...amp;o=&vc=1

This is the original conversation (copied from the anthology).

1) I agree with your assessment. My understanding is that it is generally used instead of the re-raise all-in, when you are unlikely to have fold equity. You basically use the fact that the pre-flop raiser now has seen that the flop hasn't hit him and so is more likely to fold post-flop when he would have definately called a pre-flop all-in from you. I think of it as a way to create fold equity when your chip stack doesn't give you any.

2) I believe this is most often done from the blinds, since you have to act first post-flop.

3) I have always thought it was an AI move on the flop - regardless of what the flop is.

I don't know what to say to 4, so I will stop here.

[BigAlK]

I've heard of something they've been calling a Go and Go that might be what you've described (call a re-raise and push any flop).

As others have said a stop and go is flat calling a raise with the intention of pushing any flop. This will almost always be done from the blinds because you have to be first to act post-flop. I suppose in theory it could be done by limp-calling, but if your stack size is in the range for a stop-and-go you've got no business limping in the first place. The concept is that you're gambling the original raiser missed or is scared of the flop. You increase your fold equity over pushing pre-flop since this will normally be used where you're short enough that the original raiser will be priced in to call a push pre-flop, but not to chase what will probably appear to be 2-6 outs if he whiffed on the flop.

[Micro Donk]

no a go and go is reraising pre then pushing any flop

[BigAlK]

BAK snuck his answer in before mine and it was better. I'll try and address #4 since he didn't.

First a comment on #3. It really is a stack rebuilding (or survive longer until you can actually rebuild) situation where you'd consider this.

Yes, it is dependent on stack sizes. The raiser needs to have a stack such that his raise doesn't pot commit him anyway. Your stack has to be enough so that by calling the raise and pushing all-in on the flop you have some fold equity but your stack shouldn't be so big that a push is an extreme overbet (probably 0.5 to 1.5x the pot). If your stack is big enough to be an overbet then you probably aren't desperate enough to use this move yet.

[BigAlK]

[ QUOTE ]
no a go and go is reraising pre then pushing any flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I was just guessing, obv.

[PoineDexter]

As Monty Burns would say "excellent" (tented fingers).

The original post from Raymer (linked by BAK) was what made me think it was: you raise EP, LP re-raises, you call, (flop), shove, he folds but it occurs that other posts discuss using this move from the blinds. Both seem feasible and reasonable.

It is obvious from the responses that it is a low M move to rebuild and most effective against mid-size stacks.

Thanks folks.

[KneeCo]

The idea is simply that you are in a spot where you're going to get all-in but you want FE. Usually in these situations you'll have nearly none, but even if he only folds 1 time out of 100 pf and just like 5 times out of 100 post-flop, then it becomes much preferable to stop and go than push pf for the extra FE, even if it's a very marginal.

Here's a hand I played HU at the end of a SnG today, villain never folded the button pf, so I felt he had ATC, against which, blinds being what they are, it's a +EV pf push, s I decided to SnGo since he's never folding for 6.5k more pf, but might rarely do it on the flop.

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