Semi-bluff Flush or Straight draws more often? - Page 2

PantsOnFire · #11 08-23-2007, 05:08 PM

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No, that's a very good situation for a straight draw. You were the pf raiser, there is no flush draw, your draw is to the nuts, you are out of position and you have two overcards.

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I probably never semi-bluff a straight draw when I am last to act and can get a free card.

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Thanks for your detailed response, but I am still confused: I am in position here, last to act.

Does this change it to a check?

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Nice catch, I do seem to contradict myself here.

When I said I probably never semi-bluff when last to act I was thinking of a multiway unraised pot where getting all to fold is unlikely and getting checkraised is a possibility.

The fact that this pot is heads up combined with the fact that you were the preflop raiser gives you a whole bunch more fold equity so I would generally bet, even in position. As a matter of fact, the hand you posted is a good example of a very disguised straight. If villain calls and you hit your straight on the turn, bet again representing AK bluff or QQ value bet. If he has two pair or a lesser straight, you hit paydirt.

eastern motors · #12 08-23-2007, 05:38 PM

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No, you are playing against his range right now, not his hand. The average player will fold to this bet a majority of the time. This makes it +EV to bet. You should be C-betting with almost your entire range of hands on this board vs. unknown. If your opponent was inclined to check raise often, you may want to take a free card. When it comes to C bets, I take an approach of always making one unless I can find a good reason not to.

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Is an 8-high board a good reason not to c-bet? Some small stakes players will float with overcards, especially if you have been c-betting everything. This combined with us drawing should be enough for the check, right?

tarheeljks · #13 08-23-2007, 05:44 PM

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No, you are playing against his range right now, not his hand. The average player will fold to this bet a majority of the time. This makes it +EV to bet. You should be C-betting with almost your entire range of hands on this board vs. unknown. If your opponent was inclined to check raise often, you may want to take a free card. When it comes to C bets, I take an approach of always making one unless I can find a good reason not to.

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Is an 8-high board a good reason not to c-bet? Some small stakes players will float with overcards, especially if you have been c-betting everything. This combined with us drawing should be enough for the check, right?

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if they float a lot double barrel more

tbaarslag · #14 08-23-2007, 06:04 PM

Thanks very much, that clears it up for me. To be absolutely sure I apply this right in the future: the following bet is a blunder, correct?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed)

Hero ($49.25)
SB ($23.09)
BB ($67.00)
UTG ($13.15)
MP ($31.12)
CO ($20.00)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $1.5

mattak · #15 08-23-2007, 07:26 PM

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Thanks very much, that clears it up for me. To be absolutely sure I apply this right in the future: the following bet is a blunder, correct?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed)

Hero ($49.25)
SB ($23.09)
BB ($67.00)
UTG ($13.15)
MP ($31.12)
CO ($20.00)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $1.5

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If you are looking for a guaranteed, perfect way to play a multiway draw then you are out of luck. The answer is always "it depends". Poker is not a solvable game with perfect information. Your opponent will not always do what is correct.

As for the hand

1- table selection sucks. why are you sitting at a table with 4 short stacks and the only player that has you covered has position on you most of the time.

2-preflop. i would be ok with raise here to either pick up some limped money or isolate a limp/caller with extra in the pot. this of course would depend upon my table image and my reads on the limpers.

3-i would probably bet this flop because:

: you have position, the nut draw and no one else has shown interest. it is possible you could pick up this pot uncontested.

:you will also build a nice pot if you do hit your hand on later streets.

:if you bet this flop and are called. your opponent will often check the turn to you because you have been the aggressor. giving you the ability to check and see the river for free

:blending your range. what would you do here with 55 or 99 or KQ? if you only bet when you have a made hand and check your draws/ garbage, you will become very easy to play against. if you are always stabbing at flops your opponent will not be able to get a read on you. as well, they will begin to devalue their holdings and be more willing to play big pots against you with weaker hands because you have been keeping the pressure on them.

:my default, whenever i dont know what to do or i am unsure of what line i should take is aggression. when in doubt, bet.

PantsOnFire · #16 08-23-2007, 11:33 PM

mattak gave you a great answer.

However, I am much more inclined to check in this spot. In an unraised pot, it is somewhat likely that such a med-low flop at least hit one player for a pair. And a bet off the button will get less respect and a pair will almost always call.

There are just too many in this hand to expect everyone to fold. You'd have to a have one hell of a table image and 4 tight opponents.

The idea is not to be right or wrong on a given hand. The idea is to have a set of factors to use to assess each situation. Concentrate more on what you should be thinking about than what is "correct". When you go over all the various factors, sometimes the way to go just pops out.

FooSH · #17 08-24-2007, 04:36 AM

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Thanks very much, that clears it up for me. To be absolutely sure I apply this right in the future: the following bet is a blunder, correct?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed)

Hero ($49.25)
SB ($23.09)
BB ($67.00)
UTG ($13.15)
MP ($31.12)
CO ($20.00)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $1.5

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I like a check here, there are so many players that:

A) someone could have flopped a big hand and is looking for a ck/rs.

B) someone could have Kx/67/89 and will pay off big if you hit.