In mid pos, looking to get my stack in.

[cooker3]

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So I'm really new to cash games, but some of the advice in here has to be terrible.

WTF why on earth would we shove? We have the 2nd nuts. What draws are we worried about? We basically have the deck as crippled as we can get it against two opponents.

So I'll ask again...why are we worried about giving a free card? Who cares? Are we really worried about people hitting two outers?

Anyhow, I think the best play is to make another small re-raise on this flop...one that keeps in both the flush draws and over-pairs. Then put the rest in on the turn.

If you have to min-raise the flop, fine. Whatever...we don't really care if that is the best way to keep them in the pot...then min-raise. Normally I'd never min-raise, but we want to get them committed and they are going to be getting way too good of odds to fold a min-raise.


Anyhow, keep betting on the flop. We'd hate to see and A or K come on the turn that costs us action against 77,88,99, w/e. So keep putting money in.

Sherman

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Umn, you managed to completely disagree at the end with what you said in the beginning.
The reason you shove is not because you scared of being sucked out, that would be stupid. It because of exactly what you said, people who have sevens, eights, nines etc will call because they have an overpair!!!!
If a or k comes then your action is killed.

Also, deception, a shove doesn't look like a boat, while min raising just absolutely telegraphs your hand

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But that is no reason to shove. At least IMO. But this is really dependent on your opponents. If they are the type who can't ever fold an overpair (no matter how big) then shove away. If they are the type who are just going to keep calling when they see the odds they are getting, min-raise and shove the turn. They are going to call both bets.

So it really just depends on your opponents in terms of what is the most +EV.

The problem with shoving is that it might fold out the flush draw and even some overpairs. We'd like both to call. You have to play against villains' complete range...not just the cards you'd like them to have.

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Overall I have nothing against a call and trying to get it all in on the turn but this idea that shoving is terrible is just lunacy.
That is my biggest issue about what this whole thread

[Sherman]

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So I'm really new to cash games, but some of the advice in here has to be terrible.

WTF why on earth would we shove? We have the 2nd nuts. What draws are we worried about? We basically have the deck as crippled as we can get it against two opponents.

So I'll ask again...why are we worried about giving a free card? Who cares? Are we really worried about people hitting two outers?

Anyhow, I think the best play is to make another small re-raise on this flop...one that keeps in both the flush draws and over-pairs. Then put the rest in on the turn.

If you have to min-raise the flop, fine. Whatever...we don't really care if that is the best way to keep them in the pot...then min-raise. Normally I'd never min-raise, but we want to get them committed and they are going to be getting way too good of odds to fold a min-raise.


Anyhow, keep betting on the flop. We'd hate to see and A or K come on the turn that costs us action against 77,88,99, w/e. So keep putting money in.

Sherman

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Umn, you managed to completely disagree at the end with what you said in the beginning.
The reason you shove is not because you scared of being sucked out, that would be stupid. It because of exactly what you said, people who have sevens, eights, nines etc will call because they have an overpair!!!!
If a or k comes then your action is killed.

Also, deception, a shove doesn't look like a boat, while min raising just absolutely telegraphs your hand

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But that is no reason to shove. At least IMO. But this is really dependent on your opponents. If they are the type who can't ever fold an overpair (no matter how big) then shove away. If they are the type who are just going to keep calling when they see the odds they are getting, min-raise and shove the turn. They are going to call both bets.

So it really just depends on your opponents in terms of what is the most +EV.

The problem with shoving is that it might fold out the flush draw and even some overpairs. We'd like both to call. You have to play against villains' complete range...not just the cards you'd like them to have.

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You are right. It isn't as terrible as I originally thought it was. Obv. thought stacks were deeper than they are.

[Hail Eris]

Man I don't get how this even remotely a controversial hand. Consider their ranges, which are much wider than just 77-TT and 3x or whatever we're trying to get called by, then look at the action, which is BB coldcalling and now you're shoving and you want button to call with a crap overpair even though your line is sick strong and the coldcaller is still behind him. Maybe it's because I don't play 10NL, but this just looks like a super standard slowplaying hand to me.

[wingchunflush]

I had my mind made up but after reading all the posts I am not sure. I think I call the bet and then bet the turn with a small bet that looks weak, hoping to get raised. You make a small bet about 1/2 the pot then shove on the river.

[Snozynoze]

I think my effective stack after calling that last $2 is about $7 something. (At work so i'm unable to check the HH)

I felt like if i raise preflop, bet the flop, and then shove over a raise and a call, there is a big chance we'll get a fold (or maybe even two) and i'd hate that.

I like calling this bet, and betting/raising the turn.