Ethics Question: River Showdown

[catcher193]

player 1 and player 2 are involved in an PL Omaha pot.

player 1 has KQT3, player 2 has KJ92.

an openraise, and light reraise go in preflop.

the flop comes down JT2, player 1 bets, player 2 raises close to pot, and player 1 shoves all-in for almost a pot sized raise.

the turn is a jack, the river is a jack.

player 1 pauses for a second and then flips over a queen and a ten, because he is first to show (last agressive action, OOP)

-player 2 makes a motion, expecting to see the next two cards.

once player 1 flips over his other 2 cards, player 2 promptly tables his hand and rakes in the pot with the nuts.

a few questions:

[Noir_Desir]

I don't think player 1 can really complain about slowrolling if he doesn't flip up the cards that make up his hand first (which would be KQ). Why does he show QT in the first place?

[EnsignVix]

This seems okay to me. I assume player 2's request to see the other two cards is more to get information than it is to slowroll. Additionally, I believe player 1 should show all his cards at once. It slows up the game and prevents possible error to only show part of your hand.

Noir, I'm guessing player 1 misread his hand for Jacks full of tens so just showed his ten and any card.

[FireStorm]

If a guy is dumb enough to showdown the T here, thinking he has a fullhouse, I doubt the perceived slowroll has any relevance.

In any event, this is pretty unneccessary, but not horrendous.

[Noir_Desir]

[ QUOTE ]
If a guy is dumb enough to showdown the T here, thinking he has a fullhouse, he should at least show the K for jacks full, K kicker

[/ QUOTE ]

[PantsOnFire]

Unethical, naw just a couple of douchebags who think they are better than they are. Love these guys at my table.

It would have been great if Player 2 had a T instead of a 9. He could then table KT and out kick Player 1 who tabled QT. Then Player 1 could go wait a minute I have a K as well, it's a split pot. Then Player 2 could go oh wait a minute, I have a J for the nuts. If you're gonna be a douchebag, I say go full monty.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

Agreed......
He needs to either:
1. Muck
2. Flip his cards over per the rules

Besides I think it is good advertisement to advertise that type of aggression. Why lose the pot and lose the opportunity to advertise a semi-bluff.

[catcher193]

I was player 2, answers are no/no/no/no and its not close [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have built up a policy of never ever ever showing out of turn until the other person shows or mucks, and immidiately flipping my hand if I win, mucking if I don't. I give other people the same right and when I'm first to show I show immidiately, and I show all cards, pretty easy.

I adapted this policy after getting frustrated time after time like this:
player A bets river on AAT72, I call with AQ.
player A sits there doesn't know whats going on, then finally flips over an ace with confused look on his face, I show my hand, then he flips over his king kicker, hyachachachacahcah. Maybe as a result of this situation time and time again I'm being a dick, but I think its my right.

seriously though, questions 1/3/4 are all really really easy "no's", question 2 is kinda tough, but probably a close "no"

[Poker_is_Hard]

Pretty obv that this is at a dick move at a min.

You have the nuts and therefore know you win the pot. You take time to make the other player show his losing hand, dick move. Very Simple.

Is this the worst thing of all times ever, no. However without previous history with the player, it is without a doubt a dick move.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
I was player 2, answers are no/no/no/no and its not close [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Sorry for calling you a douchebag, I was being flippant.

However, I generally just flip the nuts (or the near nuts) over at showdown regardless of who has to show what and when.

I'll only do what you did if it's against a player who has been doing it to me. And when I do play Omaha live, the way it generally goes is Player 1 says "i missed my draw", Player 2 flashes the J and the other seven cards are mucked, end of story.

However, I can easily state that your scenario if far from unethical.