How -EV is this call?

[dilligaf817]

I think I have the PreF push ingrained now.

However, I made the mistake PreF. Let's get past that. Did I compound that mistake, in your estimation, my calling off with TPTK post-flop ?

[dilligaf817]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd just shove pf. min raising is too weak here. 1. you open another chance for sb/bb to resteal, if any of them shove on you, you have to fold. 2. had you shoved pf, they can't call you except for KK AA, because the bubble boy is going to be blinded out next hand or at most two hands later.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had been stealing quite a few pots prior to this hand. The call range is MUCH looser than AA and KK in my estimation. I would guess he calls more than 50% of the time here. He also doubled up through me about 10 hands before, calling an all-in with A-10 (to my A-Q).

[sippin_criss]

[ QUOTE ]
As played, I think you have to fold (though not sure if I could actually lay it down). There are too many draws out there and you've only invested 800 so far. Fold and get ITM.

[/ QUOTE ]

what

fold because villain has draws a lot? i need a sick read to consider a fold here.

[Jibba]

I wouldn't say the call was horrible. The way he played this screams flush draw, or maybe weak TP, or a complete bluff pushing back thinking the preflop aggressor missed the flop (very unlikely in this spot though). In this scenario, I typically don't expect villain to turn over much better than Kh Jh, which you're still beating by a very slim margin. Another AJ is obviously possible, including Ah Jh (which is horrible), but most stronger hands would have either reraised preflop or would check the flop here.

Overall, you basically just put yourself in a bad position with the PF min-raise. There's a good argument for both sides here IMO, which makes the play very read-dependant. Without a read though I guess I'd have a small lean toward calling given about 1.4 to 1 on your money.

[alex-star]

ditto + use a f..ing converter next time.

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say the call was horrible. The way he played this screams flush draw, or maybe weak TP, or a complete bluff pushing back thinking the preflop aggressor missed the flop (very unlikely in this spot though). In this scenario, I typically don't expect villain to turn over much better than Kh Jh, which you're still beating by a very slim margin. Another AJ is obviously possible, including Ah Jh, but most stronger hands would have either reraised preflop or would check the flop here.

Overall, you basically just put yourself in a bad position with the PF min-raise. There's a good argument for both sides here IMO, which makes the play very read-dependant. Without a read though I guess I'd have a small lean toward calling given about 1.4 to 1 on your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

[dilligaf817]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say the call was horrible. The way he played this screams flush draw, or maybe weak TP, or a complete bluff pushing back thinking the preflop aggressor missed the flop (very unlikely in this spot though). In this scenario, I typically don't expect villain to turn over much better than Kh Jh, which you're still beating by a very slim margin. Another AJ is obviously possible, including Ah Jh, but most stronger hands would have either reraised preflop or would check the flop here.

Overall, you basically just put yourself in a bad position with the PF min-raise. There's a good argument for both sides here IMO, which makes the play very read-dependant. Without a read though I guess I'd have a small lean toward calling given about 1.4 to 1 on your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the reply.

The reason I ended up calling is because I thought he pushes with any J, 10, or KQ here. (Q-9, or two low flush cards I dismissed because he would have dumped it before the flop. Yes, even to a minraise). A-J crossed my mind, but of course I wasn't concerned because I had that tied (although he was freerolling in my case); anyway, I had that on the low spectrum because I thought he would have shoved PF.

It all goes back to the minraise I realize, although it plays out faster post-flop if I raise to 1200 or 1600. Personally, I don't like shoving PF here. I think I am risking too much with the BB in his situation and my image at the table, which widens the SB and BB calling range.

[dilligaf817]

My bad. I have the converter in my favorites, but I forgot it. I was set to edit my post, but I already had a reply I wanted to tend to. Then I realized I couldn't edit once there had been a reply (either that, or I'm not seeing it), and the opportunity was lost.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t810)
Hero (t4196)
SB (t3827)
BB (t4667)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t800</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, BB calls t400

Flop: (t1900) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">BB bets t3842 (All-in)</font>, Hero calls t3371 (All-in)

Turn: (t9113) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)


River: (t9113) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)


Results in gray below:
<font color="#f7f7f7">BB has Ad, Jh (a flush, Jack high)</font>
<font color="#f7f7f7">Hero has Jd, As (a pair of Jacks)</font>

[Jibba]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the reply.

The reason I ended up calling is because I thought he pushes with any J, 10, or KQ here. (Q-9, or two low flush cards I dismissed because he would have dumped it before the flop. Yes, even to a minraise). A-J crossed my mind, but of course I wasn't concerned because I had that tied (although he was freerolling in my case); anyway, I had that on the low spectrum because I thought he would have shoved PF.

It all goes back to the minraise I realize, although it plays out faster post-flop if I raise to 1200 or 1600. Personally, I don't like shoving PF here. I think I am risking too much with the BB in his situation and my image at the table, which widens the SB and BB calling range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're overestimating the risk you'd be putting yourself in with a preflop push. Even a beginner would be hard-pressed to call a push with AJ knowing that the short stack is just about to bust. And even then, there are only 3 hands you're extremely upset to see if he calls (and he held none of the 3). You just got unlucky on the turn and river.

And if you just refuse to push preflop, I think you have to at least raise to 3x. If he calls and pushes the flop in that scenario, your decision is much easier.

[Rick Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
And even then, there are only 3 hands you're extremely upset to see if he calls (and he held none of the 3).

[/ QUOTE ]

3?

AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ = 6

[Jibba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And even then, there are only 3 hands you're extremely upset to see if he calls (and he held none of the 3).

[/ QUOTE ]

3?

AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ = 6

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're right. My bad.