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#11
08-21-2007, 09:27 PM
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Re: $27 butchered AK.. flame away. 4bet shove PF?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you usually have very little FE against those sorts of structured re-raises, it is often AA or KK and even if it isn't, I don't think you have pot odds to take the wrong end of a flip here. [/ QUOTE ] Then why call the preflop reraise? [/ QUOTE ] Because if you just flat call and the flop comes A or K high, you get your chips in knowing that you're ahead of TT-QQ (and other lower PPs). I'd be happier getting it in on an A high rather than K high flop obv. [/ QUOTE ] I hate flat calling, personally. If he has a lower PP, it's quite possible a majority of the time he'll shut down and we won't gain any more chips. Shoving at least forces him to get his chips in the pot. Anyway, look at the possibilities: If we call, and it comes out A or K high, we bet out and he folds some of the time. We gain ~500 chips these times. If he has AA or KK, we're screwed and lose all of our chips. If he has TT-QQ, then he might c/f it and we won't gain anything else. If we call, and it comes out no K or A, we fold and lose ~1/3 of our stack for the call. If we push, and it comes out A or K high, we get stacked off by villain when he has a lower PP, a lower ace. We lose our chips anyway when he has AA or KK. We also lose our chips, of course, when the A or K miss. But AK plays better seeing 5 cards, calling off 1/3 of our stack seems bad to me. I should run the numbers but I'm pretty sure that this would be a shove/fold situation. If we push and he folds, we win the pot. (not likely). Seems like you should shove if you want to play. But I might try and wait for a better spot. 
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#15
08-21-2007, 10:27 PM
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Re: $27 butchered AK.. flame away. 4bet shove PF?
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What do we want to see with AK? [/ QUOTE ] You might be flipping a decent amount of the time but even at $27s you see AJ+ or worse or KJ+ and other garbage hands that you completely dominate often enough to be profitable with a shove. Its not even all that uncommon to find people folding to a 3bet shove with bets just like they were in this hand, I probably see it every other set.
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#16
08-21-2007, 10:29 PM
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Re: $27 butchered AK.. flame away. 4bet shove PF?
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[ QUOTE ] What do we want to see with AK? [/ QUOTE ] You might be flipping a decent amount of the time but even at $27s you see AJ+ or worse or KJ+ and other garbage hands that you completely dominate often enough to be profitable with a shove. Its not even all that uncommon to find people folding to a 3bet shove with bets just like they were in this hand, I probably see it every other set. [/ QUOTE ] That question wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, and that's not the answer I was looking for.
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#18
08-21-2007, 10:55 PM
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Re: $27 butchered AK.. flame away. 4bet shove PF?
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I'm not too sure you can fold this flop. If he can ever show up here with air you need to call. [/ QUOTE ] If he can show up with air here then we should be pushing pre, I don't think any 27 regs I've seen show up with air here, so fold vs good player push vs bad is usually what id do. Kevin: He meant what do we want to see when we call, not what hands we want to be up against, and I agree with what he's implying there can't really be a good reason to call.
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#20
08-22-2007, 01:34 AM
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Re: $27 butchered AK.. flame away. 4bet shove PF?
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What do we want to see with AK? [/ QUOTE ] Here's the answer to my question: We want to see 5 cards. Calling obviously does not accomplish this, and for this % of ur stack you can call and fold every missed flop. So, calling is the worse of your three choices. Shoving or folding depends on reads.
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