Bad Play or Bad Luck w/ J-J?

[P0kerJunkie]

Hey guys, I'm re-posting this because I didn't get quite as many responses as I'd hoped for last time.

Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)

HERO ($24.65 in chips)
VILLAIN ($23.95 in chips)
HERO is the button
VILLAIN is the SB
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pokerscool09 [Jc Jd]
UTG folds
UTG+1 folds
HERO calls $0.25
VILLAIN raises $0.75 to $1
BB calls $0.75
HERO raises $2 to $3
VILLAIN calls $2
BB folds
*** FLOP *** [7h 5c 3d]
VILLAIN checks
HERO bets $6
VILLAIN raises $14.95 to $20.95 and is all-in
HERO calls $14.95
*** TURN *** [7h 5c 3d] [Th]
*** RIVER *** [7h 5c 3d Th] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
VILLAIN shows [Qd Qc] (a pair of Queens)
HERO mucks hand
VILLAIN collected $46.90 from pot


I'll go ahead and explain some of my thinking, though I think a lot of the hand played itself.
I had only been playing at this table for a few hands before this one, so I didn't have any strong reads on any of my opponents.
I originally limped in from the button simply because I didn't want to scare SB or BB out of the pot, and thought there was a reasonable chance that one of them might raise, so I could re raise.
I proceeded to re raise in order to knock villain off any mediocre hand i.e. K-9 where a raise might've been pertinent if villain had suspected weakness.
I bet pretty big on the flop because an over to J-J will come after the flop around 50% of the time (Ken Warren Teaches Texas Hold 'Em) without any overs on the flop.
I thought villain might have a hand like 8-8, 9-9, or T-T, which would explain why he didn't re raise me pf. I thought he might even have overplayed A-Ks if he misread me and thought I was weak. I guess I'm looking for feedback on where I missed the evidence that he had a bigger pair than my jacks, instead of a hand like T-T.

Any thoughts?

[mattnxtc]

Your thought process is awful...and there is a forum for bad beats.

[drsmooth]

Is this a joke? I love how you have references. Seriously though don't 'trap' pre-flop, just raise it.

[cooker3]

Ugh, this is bad.
Limp re-raising jacks on the button is beyond terrible.
Just raise it up, what do you think someone calls a limp re-raise oop with, how many hands which beat you call? If an opponant is any way decent not that many and most of them will crush you.

If you take anything from this thread then never ever do it again!

[P0kerJunkie]

Yeah, I guess i see where you're coming from, cooker. But I'm still wondering why it isn't possible for villain to have called a limp re-raise oop with T-T, and then shove on that flop after the raise. Also, would you guys have folded to the shove on the flop, given the pf action? Thoughts?

[maca9]

Hi P0kerjunkie

I am quite new to poker myself but one of the early lessons i learned from the guys here which has helped me no end is RAISE THAT [CENSORED] UP.

Please don't limp these hands - THERE IS NO JOY IN LIMPING

Virtually every sob story I personally have or read here starts with AA,KK,QQ,JJ, AK and a LIMP or a raise so small you need a magnifying glass to see it.

I know how the thinking goes from us newbies....Wow i have AA....I am sick of getting no action with them after my 4xBB bet.... lets limp and get some guys on the hook.....Flop comes K77 and you get action..........YAY overpair and a guy betting into my ACES (what an idiot he must be)........

No prizes for seeing the BB turn over 75o for a set of sevens and your stack to go......

A few of those experiances and picking up the blinds with a PP suddenly doesn't look so bad!! haha.


You're in the right place to learn but please take the advice and follow Tien and RAISE THAT [CENSORED] UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crushednuts]

Here is why you don't slow play such hands:
Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $32.00
BB: $50.45
UTG: $19.80
CO: $16.55
Hero (BTN): $24.65

Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.00</font>, SB folds, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.25</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $5.70</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $23.65</font>, BB calls $17.95

Turn: ($49.40) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($49.40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $49.40 ($2 Rake)

BB had A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Aces) and LOST (-$24.65)
Hero had 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Jacks and Nines) and WON (+$22.75)

I have like 20 of these in my Database.. Just play the hand straightforward and you will show a much higher profit

[P0kerJunkie]

Haha, alright guys thanks. I'll take that lesson with me. If anyone notices where i missed the signs that villain didn't have a hand like t-t, please respond and let me know. Thanks again crushed, and maca.