do you fold this turn?

[LoNeLyAcEs]

Limit Holdem Ring game
9 players

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9.8SB, 7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.9BB, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10.9BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12.9BB

no reads, was the 3rd hand...

[scott111]

FWIW, I fold preflop, raise flop, call the raise on the turn, check/call the river.

[F. McSimmons]

plz fold pre and raizeeeee flop.

[Point Blank]

ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible ..

then thinking that you should just call the flop is also terrible ... and because you didn't raise the flop for value (you know have no idea what to do ... TUFF LUCK)

and again ... what range of hands do you think a 'general player' in the games you play would do this with

write them out ...

[LoNeLyAcEs]

I don't fold QXs after 4 limpers which basically play poor offsuit hands like 76o-T9o, J7o-J9o etc. maybe it's marginal but it's certainly not terrible

the flop call is close and it's for sure not terrible, since there are only very few cards that can hurt this hand, raising will likely eliminate almost all opponents on this dry board, while calling might get 2-3 overcalls

only reason to raise is to win the big pot right here, in a smaller pot, say 3 sb smaller it would be afwul to raise and knock them all out

as for the range, try to come up with a range of a micro limit player who plays about 30%-40% of his hands and sometimes makes bogus moves in this situation I often see players do this with:

66+, or any 5 so it's almost impossible to put him on anything unless I have a good sample of hands, remember it's the 3rd hand I play this guy...

[CrMenace]

It's not obvious to me that calling the flop is bad here -- not many draws, would love more callers.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible ..



[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think it's that profitable but i seriously doubt its terrible if you're better than your opponents and you know when you have the best hand on a Qxx flop and when you dont.

fwiw i play this live here but fold it online.

Kit

[00Snitch]

[ QUOTE ]

ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible ..


[/ QUOTE ]

Hrmmm, I call it after 4 limpers...

[ QUOTE ]

It's not obvious to me that calling the flop is bad here


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe i'm going to say it, but I tend to agree.

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't fold QXs after 4 limpers which basically play poor offsuit hands like 76o-T9o, J7o-J9o etc. maybe it's marginal but it's certainly not terrible

[/ QUOTE ]

well - yes, it's not terrible (but it's close ... perhaps you should run some stove to come up with some estimates)

[ QUOTE ]
the flop call is close and it's for sure not terrible, since there are only very few cards that can hurt this hand, raising will likely eliminate almost all opponents on this dry board, while calling might get 2-3 overcalls

[/ QUOTE ]

actually - i would say this is worse than PF ... those same players you mentioned in your first point will call for the same points you make here ... and the pot is sufficiently large



[/ QUOTE ]as for the range, try to come up with a range of a micro limit player who plays about 30%-40% of his hands and sometimes makes bogus moves in this situation I often see players do this with:

66+, or any 5 so it's almost impossible to put him on anything unless I have a good sample of hands, remember it's the 3rd hand I play this guy...

[/ QUOTE ]

that's why I said a 'general player in the games you play' ... i have no idea what the players are like in the games you play (in the games I play, I can't make an rough estimate for a general player)

[CrMenace]

I dunno, Point. People aren't lining up to call two cold in my games. Live yes, online no. Seems to me that calling likely gets more money in the pot.