3rd st scenario in stud8

TStoneMBD · #1 08-18-2007, 02:43 AM

say a 2 brings it in, it folds to you with a K and the bringin behind you and you complete with 27-8. the king reraises and the 2 folds. do you fold here for 1 more bet? what razz hands would you fold here if any?

do you even complete this hand to begin with? alot of you seem to be limping with razz hands for some reason but i just tend to raise them unless perhaps im in a hyperaggro game where i think people may play back at me light just cause i have an 8.

Joe Tall · #2 08-18-2007, 05:51 AM

I replied but didn't understand the hand as it is written really weird. So you are ante-stealing here? Yeah, call HU here vs a high only if you are live.

HOWMANY · #3 08-18-2007, 09:04 AM

I only open limp my razz hands in situations where there are 0-1 lows left to act behind me and a lot of high cards. Basically the reason for this is that I'd rather let some tards in with crappy highs that they'd fold for a full bet and we can start a multiway pot. I will actually limp in with some of my super strong low oriented hands as well here sometimes in an attempt to LRR because my hand will appear to be a razz hand.

Just limping them on 3rd also lets you get away quite easily on 4th and 5th if you don't catch well. Even if you start 278 and catch "well" on 4th with a 3-6 there is really no reason to continue after a 5th brick in a HU pot that was only limped on 3rd and 1 bet 2 ways on 4th.

Andy B · #4 08-18-2007, 02:55 PM

It wouldn't even occur to me to fold a razz hand in the scenario you describe.

TStoneMBD · #5 08-18-2007, 05:17 PM

7s 8c 2h 91408 95959 404026 15 240157 5530 57 0.398
5c Kd Kh 193266 404026 95959 15 14672 2197 57 0.602

a razz hand has only 40% equity against a high hand in this situation and just like its correct to fold a hand like 559 against kk7 in stud high for one bet i dont see why it wouldnt be correct to fold 782 in this same situation. perhaps the only added value of continuing with this hand in 8b is that when you catch an ace youll often take down the pot uncontested which only happens in stud high when you pair your door card. basically, calling another bet to draw to half the pot with hardly any scoop potential seems like a mistake to me, for the same reasons that defending your bringin with 78-2 against a king is a mistake. i dont think the added pot odds on 3rd street justify the call. am i wrong?

blumpkin · #6 08-18-2007, 05:29 PM

tstone, i think you are ignoring the fact that the low hand can always outplay the high hand, who suffers from reverse implied odds. when you brick on 4th, you will fold. its possible to be freerolling on 5th, or even make goofy open pair trips and get paid off nicely. also, what happens if you catch an ace on 4th? does he fold immediately? if so, that's good when you have this [censored] razz hand, and if not, that's even better when you make aces or aces up. and what will he do if your board is 876 on 5th...

jon_1van · #7 08-20-2007, 04:03 PM

I think your ante steal is pretty automatic here because its so easy to play your razz hand correctly vs a K who plays back at you (assuming the opponent needs somekind of hand to playback)

On 4th you are either gonna have a super easy fold, or a super easy call (or possible raise if you pick up high potential)

So, you might as well steal on 3rd because you will almost never make a mistake of 4th where as you can easily get the K guessing if you catch an Ace / pair / suited baby etc.

Alchemist · #8 08-20-2007, 05:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think your ante steal is pretty automatic here because its so easy to play your razz hand correctly vs a K who plays back at you (assuming the opponent needs somekind of hand to playback)

On 4th you are either gonna have a super easy fold, or a super easy call (or possible raise if you pick up high potential)

So, you might as well steal on 3rd because you will almost never make a mistake of 4th where as you can easily get the K guessing if you catch an Ace / pair / suited baby etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering you have the same kind of opponent you mention above, what action do you recommend on 4th if you've got (27)88 vs say (xx)K6? Bet-call?

Kurn, son of Mogh · #9 08-20-2007, 06:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
say a 2 brings it in, it folds to you with a K and the bringin behind you and you complete with 27-8. the king reraises and the 2 folds. do you fold here for 1 more bet? what razz hands would you fold here if any?

do you even complete this hand to begin with? alot of you seem to be limping with razz hands for some reason but i just tend to raise them unless perhaps im in a hyperaggro game where i think people may play back at me light just cause i have an 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't fold any razz hand for one more bet here. I've got a live low hand with position and should be able to outplay the obvious high for the rest of the hand. The only way I lose position is by pairing up or catching a live ace, both of which put opponent in a dicey position.