Boat vs nit - fold?

[Chaoslord]

how can u even consider folding this?
as agressive as these games are today theres almost no situation where folding a fullhouse for 100bb is good poker.

if he has QQ or 66 why would he openshove if he puts on a strong hand, why not c/r a-i? i think his most likely hand here is Qhxh and he hopes u pay off with a 4.

if he had u beat (which is what i assume since u post this no-brainer call here) tough luck man, but dont question your play this is a snapcall for every good player

[TheWorstPlayer]

if he just plays it well and CRAI on the river, then you have no chance to get away. but since he didn't, i think you do. since he's obviously bad and uncreative.

[FabledHero]

he shoved because he thought our hero likely had a flush draw because he played it so strongly. I believe he was thikning if he c/r'd the hero would be able to get away from it. LIke i said a lot of donks like to shove boats when a flush hits.

[TheWorstPlayer]

hero will be getting like 4:1 on the river. no way he gets away from a flush...

[FabledHero]

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hero will be getting like 4:1 on the river. no way he gets away from a flush...

[/ QUOTE ]If you really think a nit would c/r AI with worse than the nut flush, you need to rethink the situation.

[Kirkrrr]

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if he had u beat (which is what i assume since u post this no-brainer call here) tough luck man, but dont question your play this is a snapcall for every good player

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow that is stupid.

The sign of a "good" player is being able to objectively evaluate a given situation. Hand strengths are relative to circumstances - sometimes you're willing to stack off with nut no pair and other times we laugh at the "fish" that couldn't lay down AA even when "it's so obvious AA are no good!" If you can understand that, you also should be able to understand that just because you have a big hand it doesnt' mean you have to lose everything. If your opponent played the hand so bad that he's letting you off easy, take it as a gift and fold. You don't have to go broke every time you get a big hand beat, and I believe this was one of those times. Villain played his hand absolutely terrible and gave the OP as great of a chance to get away as he possibly could. As played, this was not a cooler.

Kirk

[FabledHero]

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Wow... really nasty spot. I don't think he's ever bluffing and I don't see him playing a flush this way on a paired board unless he's a complete retard, and stats indicate otherwise... I'd really, really hate calling there a lot.

To one of the other posters, no one in their right mind overbet bluffs hoping to get their opponents will lay down monsters, it's cost-prohibitive so I think you can safely toss the if-he-thinks-you-may-lay-down-a-boat-he-should-be-bluffing line out the window because 17/12's (or most rational opponents) are simply never doing that. To put another way, when was the last time you put your opponent on 2nd nuts and decided to make him lay it down?

Kirk

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So...fold?

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In a vacuum, probably. Since we're not in a vacuum, use recent history/past history/the way he's playing now/bet timing to see if you can gain any other clues. If none of those help, I think folding would be best.

Incidentally, if you have been attacking him a lot or are up on him this session this would make it a much, much easier fold.

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]I disgree. I think if you've been attacking him or are up on him etc, he might shove less than the nut FD for value, because he thinks you'll be more likely to call. So instead of most likely QQ, 66, Nut flush, he could maybe have king high flush possibly even queen high flush. Remember this guy is a nit so, he's probabaly not going to be bluffing under any circumstance.

[Chaoslord]

my point is thats its very easy to outguess yourself in these situations. if the game is agressive (which most 10/20+ games are) and you have a 100bb stack you do good if you just dont care what the other guy has when your hand is big enough.
like for example you have 22 and the flop is 972 - you try to get your money in if the guy has a higher set, you reload. or if you have KK in a shorthanded game and someone happens to have aces, you just loose a buyin. dont try to make big hero laydowns they are not +EV.
the only exception i can see is when you played with a player a lot, know his game very well and have a really strong read (im not talking about a "this guy is running 17/12 over 500 hands" read) and apperantly this is not the case here.

also please dont insult me, i only state my opinion - if you dont agree with it, thats your choice - but im pretty sure there are people reading this who care for my advice, since im actually a big winner in these games and not some brokeass railbird posting random brainfart

[RiverFenix]

Chaoslord,
While I agree with your comments on 100bb stacks hero started the hand with 220bb.

[Chaoslord]

mhm didnt see that sorry. i still dont see myself folding here in a blind battle