Common JJ spot i just don't know how to play

[NoahSD]

Sheets, your line just seems awful. We only have a PSB left, so shoving A-high flop isn't pushing out QQ/KK, and shoving low boards pushes out AK which is bad as well.

[Todd Terry]

[ QUOTE ]

As for the folding vs calling and playing on options, I see hands like this posted alot, and I always wonder why people insist on checking the flop, and not leading at any and all flops. You have enough chips where you can lead at pretty much any flop at all and take the initiative back from the villain, and at the same time probe for information. If an ace flops, you can fire and blow QQ and KK out in some variations. If a rag board comes, you can fire out and get AK to give up in some variations as well, which is a better way to play vs AK than checking because you do run the risk of him checking behind and taking a free card etc...you are representing either AT/AJ/AQ ish ot some mid-bigggish pair by opening and calling the reraise, so in a weird way you can represent whatever you want on any flop, as QQ,KK has to fear your bet on an ace flop, and AK has to fear your bet on a rag flop.

If villain has QQ,KK,AA on a rag board he will let you know pretty quickly and you can still fold and have a good stack, and also if villain has AK/AQ and an ace flops, he will let you know as well. I think the variations where you call, then lead at the flop and actually get BLUFFED off the best hand are very few, and as a result I think this is definitely a more aggressive alternative than checking.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm don't think any poker moves are known by players' names, but this one should definitely be called "the Lee Childs", or LC for short. As in, "so this guy tried to LC me on a 8-high board and I shoved on him with AK, and he folded".

There was a long discussion of this move in this forum right after LC's ill-fated LC attempt, which I'm not adept enough at searching to find, but it's there somewhere.

I once crunched numbers for an afternoon and convinced myself that calling and then jamming favorable flops is never better, in terms of cEV, than shoving. So it's shove or fold here, depending on your read of villian's range.

[sheetsworld]

Yeah with these stacks it doesnt work as well as I first thought.


sheets

[degenrat]

Basically this spot absolutely sucks right? that's what all the analysis has come up with. lol

[ASPoker8]

Shove > Fold >>>>> Call

if he's realllly nitty:
Fold > Shove >>>>> Call

imo

I think calling is really bad, none of the arguments for it have been great :/


His 3bet is sized sort of big which makes AA-KK seem less likely

[degenrat]

i just went and checked again, villain here is pretty deepstacked. Villain 3 bets 99, 1010, jj and AQ here no? And maybe gets frisky 5-10% of the time with a speculative hand......

i think this is a shove based on that + other factors.

[djk123]

i shove all day. don't think i would ever call. if we were utg and i knew villain was nitty i might fold