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#11
08-18-2007, 12:20 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] OP -- you're 0 for 2 by my count. [/ QUOTE ] I understand calling the flop to induce more callers, but why are we folding this pf? It's very likely to be 5 to the flop and we have the button.. and this is .5/1 so we are probably going to be payed off well when we do flop well.. [/ QUOTE ] not against unknowns. [/ QUOTE ] I guess I am not giving them enough credit.. 
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#12
08-18-2007, 12:28 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
pf call is not a mistake at all, it's about even money pf in this situation, assuming good post flop skills and all the strategic advantages which come with this hand and in position it's +EV
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#13
08-18-2007, 12:31 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] OP -- you're 0 for 2 by my count. [/ QUOTE ] I understand calling the flop to induce more callers, but why are we folding this pf? It's very likely to be 5 to the flop and we have the button.. and this is .5/1 so we are probably going to be payed off well when we do flop well.. [/ QUOTE ] not against unknowns. [/ QUOTE ] I guess I am not giving them enough credit.. [/ QUOTE ] YEAH, i had the same problem a while back. I would use "limit reads". Oh, these guys must all suck, they are only playing .25/.50 or whatever. I don't try too many fancy or borderline things until about the third orbit against unknowns. Then I have a feel for the table and what kind of hands are being played and how. Just be patient Farty, you can do it!!
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#14
08-18-2007, 12:33 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
pf call is not a mistake at all, it's about even money pf in this situation, assuming good post flop skills and all the strategic advantages which come with this hand and in position it's +EV [/ QUOTE ] I wont argue this. I checked SSHE and they do say its ok to cold call QJs-T9s against a pf raiser and 2+ callers.
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#15
08-18-2007, 12:35 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] pf call is not a mistake at all, it's about even money pf in this situation, assuming good post flop skills and all the strategic advantages which come with this hand and in position it's +EV [/ QUOTE ] I wont argue this. I checked SSHE and they do say its ok to cold call QJs-T9s against a pf raiser and 2+ callers. [/ QUOTE ] is that with 2 limpers before the raise, or 2 cold callers after the raise? It does make a difference.
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#16
08-18-2007, 12:35 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
I understand calling the flop to induce more callers, but why are we folding this pf? It's very likely to be 5 to the flop and we have the button.. and this is .5/1 so we are probably going to be payed off well when we do flop well.. [/ QUOTE ] You're counting on one of the buttons to come along, no one to 3B and none of the limpers to fold. That probably happens a reasonable amount of the time. You're going to make an FD, SD, or two pair or better something like 20% of the time. Not all of those FD's and SD's hit, of course. And you're also building a nice big pot preflop, so you'll be forced to call even your modest holdings.
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#17
08-18-2007, 12:49 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
I checked SSHE and they do say its ok to cold call QJs-T9s against a pf raiser and 2+ callers. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] is that with 2 limpers before the raise, or 2 cold callers after the raise? It does make a difference. [/ QUOTE ] SSHE says "if 3 players have entered the pot so far (the raiser and at least 2 callers)...." So, it appears that they mean at least 2 cold callers after the raise.
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#18
08-18-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I checked SSHE and they do say its ok to cold call QJs-T9s against a pf raiser and 2+ callers. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] is that with 2 limpers before the raise, or 2 cold callers after the raise? It does make a difference. [/ QUOTE ] SSHE says "if 3 players have entered the pot so far (the raiser and at least 2 callers)...." So, it appears that they mean at least 2 cold callers after the raise. [/ QUOTE ] Bottom line is it's marginal. So if you think you can outplay your opponents post flop, fine. On this hand, post flop play is clearly bad. Farty -- when you are drawing, you want callers. You need at least as many callers as your chances of the draw coming home (in this case about once in four), so only raise here if you think both villains will call two cold. This hand provides some evidence that you (Farty) shouldn't be making marginal calls pf until you're stronger post flop.
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#19
08-18-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
Pf is loose but not terrible. I don't like the flop raise. U will often end up HU and getting 3-bet. U don't need to protect any outs because u have just a draw.
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#20
08-18-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: Line check w/ JTsoooted
assuming limpers are 30/5 and the range of the raiser is ATs+,KJs+,AQo+,TT+:
Equity Won Tie Loss Hand player 1: 19.137 % 17.711 % 3.138 % 79.151 % 44-77, A4o+, AQs-, K8+, K6s+, QT+, Q9s, JTs player 2: 19.161 % 17.727 % 3.154 % 79.119 % 44-77, A4o+, AQs-, K8+, K6s+, QT+, Q9s, JTs player 3: 38.714 % 37.262 % 3.190 % 59.549 % ATs+,KJs+,TT+,AQo+ player 4: 22.989 % 22.344 % 1.467 % 76.189 % JTs it's about even money preflop but postflop JTs is a great hand in late position imho, it's not a mistake to call here...
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