Paying Off on the River?

MrWookie · #1 08-14-2007, 08:46 PM

Villain in this hand is 20/0 over about 20 hands. I haven't noticed anything else out of him.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($96.50)
SB ($31.35)
BB ($79)
UTG ($96.50)
Hero ($103.40)
CO ($184)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, CO calls $4, 3 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $9, CO calls $9.

Turn: ($27.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, CO calls $20.

River: ($67.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9, and what do I do?

DeathDonkey · #2 08-14-2007, 09:26 PM

As played probably call at that price but I would have shoved the river. If he has AxKd he snap calls and all other hands have a damn tough spot IMO because if he doesn't have AxKd its a very likely hand for you. 20/0 sounds like exactly the guy to lay down the Jd and certainly anything worse here.

-DeathDonkey

marchron · #3 08-17-2007, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As played probably call at that price but I would have shoved the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT, even though I'm far too weak-tight at this stage of my NL development to pull the trigger for an all-in Clarkmeister.

Neko · #4 08-17-2007, 12:55 AM

hate these river spots. DD push river is looking pretty nice to me and something I wouldn't have really considered had I been playing. I always end up betting 3/4 pot here and getting called by weak diamonds.

CMReedy · #5 08-18-2007, 02:32 AM

Grunch

Ungh, pot is so large in relation to bet. Um call and hope for bluff? These hands make me throw my mouse across room, then again any hand I lose does, hence my big box o' $3 mice and bigger box o' $3 mouse parts.

CMReedy · #6 08-18-2007, 02:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As played probably call at that price but I would have shoved the river. If he has AxKd he snap calls and all other hands have a damn tough spot IMO because if he doesn't have AxKd its a very likely hand for you. 20/0 sounds like exactly the guy to lay down the Jd and certainly anything worse here.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, never would have even thought of that, probably because I'm working my way up through from NL 10 and would get called by the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], then overcalled by someone by the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] because every river is 3 way +, but very scary and gutsy play.

Hm, something for me to think of as I move up. The K will of course call, the queen will groan for a bit and prolly call, but anything less will prolly fold, even a straight or if the player was bad and slowplayed a set (again, a lot of NL 10 observations here, but nothing to really compare it to yet).

calcbandit · #7 08-18-2007, 03:21 AM

As tempting as calling with top 2 for 9 bucks in a 70 dollar pot it, I feel like you are never ever good here against a 20/0 donk.

I'm intrigued by the betting option though. Not that your opponents are analyzing with this level, but would you ever open push this river if you had the K or Q of diamonds? Your stack size is basically a pot size bet at this point, perfect, I think.

diebitter · #8 08-18-2007, 04:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As tempting as calling with top 2 for 9 bucks in a 70 dollar pot it, I feel like you are never ever good here against a 20/0 donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised. And yes, that's a call.

MrWookie · #9 08-20-2007, 02:39 PM

I guess I am too much of a limit player yet. I haven't developed the sense of how to make the bold bluff.

Pyromaniac · #10 08-20-2007, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As tempting as calling with top 2 for 9 bucks in a 70 dollar pot it, I feel like you are never ever good here against a 20/0 donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised. And yes, that's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a call b/c it's a modest enough bet to see whether or not you're good here? most of the time you won't be, but often enough to make it worth $9-into-$77?

...i'm wondering how much the river check here induces this bet from the villain. Hero raised 4x preflop, led out pot-sized bet on the flop, 2/3 pot on the turn when the 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hit, and then...nothing on the river when the 4th [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits. doesn't this really telegraph either "i don't think my hand's any good now" or "i'm trying to induce a bluff"? but really, it's my-hand-is-no-good. because you wouldn't check the river hoping for a check-raise, because a worse hand will either also check for a free showdown or, if he takes a stab at it, will fold to a reraise. but then, reraising here seems insane and we should be happy just to call the $9 and see what happens [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

would it be worse to lead out with the $9 bet and then fold to a raise?