wait til turn?

[Captain R]

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How are we going to learn from somebody giving a one-liner without any explanation?

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That's it, I'm going to start changing my posts. Now they're going to read something like:

"Raise the turn! Arrghh.. 'cause the Captain said so!"
or
"You raise the flop and you best be walkin' da plank!"
or
"I had a hand like that once. Now all I gots is this blasted hook!"

[leo doc]

I like. You're not going to fold anyone for another bet on the flop (you'd only bloat the pot) and you're equity changes pretty dramatically depending on the turn.

But then again, I've been accused of bein' a wus in these situations.

[n.s.]

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Most of the other posts in this thread, "raise the flop," or "one street too late," are, with respect guys, useless.

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Thank you. I'm starting to feel like a lot of the one-line posts on this forum are designed to make me feel stupid without allowing me to actually learn anything.

[andyfox]

Raising the flop is the wus way. Waiting 'til the turn takes balls.

[soonerorlater]

I wait until the turn for a few reasons.

You can't protect your hand at all here.

SB leading into 4 players on this flop usually means no less then pair+draw AND wants to 3-bet your raise (overpairs would have either 3-bet preflop or tried to check raise the flop instead)

You can't expect both flop callers to have naked overs, so there are a lot of cards on the turn that bother/hurt/cripple your hand.

Raising a safe turn charges drawing hands more, and better defines SB's hand ie. a 3-bet most likely means you are pretty far behind.

I'm a nit, this flop stinks for black K's in a 5 way pot, and if I'm going 3-4 more big bets here I want it to be on my terms instead of the LAGGY SB's.

Oh, next to the K diamonds, this may be my 2nd favorite turn.

[bdaddy]

VMA...I didnt stove it yet. I was too busy hacking up the golf course today but I'm not sure how much of an equity advantage we have here vs 4 other players on this flop and that was my reason for not raising the flop. There's no protecting my hand here on the flop, and I'm not sold the raise would be for value.

[vmacosta]

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VMA...I didnt stove it yet. I was too busy hacking up the golf course today but I'm not sure how much of an equity advantage we have here vs 4 other players on this flop and that was my reason for not raising the flop. There's no protecting my hand here on the flop, and I'm not sold the raise would be for value.

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bdaddy,
this problem is a little annoying to stove because fish always have such gigantic hand ranges. However its pretty clear that sb can have just a decent draw and nobody else raised so they likely have 1-pair hands or draws. So I'd lay 10:1 that you have an equity edge.

Of course you have a bigger edge on a blank turn, but the parlay that sb will lead into the field again on the turn with a hand you beat and the fish will call with hands that are drawing slim (or fold live hands for the 2nd bet) is pretty crazy.

[cowboy billy]

I agree with vmacosta's post, but I don't like bloating the pot with an overpair on a draw heavy flop with multiway action, bc it doesn't help defining our hand much

on the turn, everybody plays much more true to their hands, esp multiway, which means we should be able to find out where we stand pretty easily bc we won't get played back at with (big) drawing hands as their equity have decreased drastically, we could also be presented with the possibility to trap the players in between for 2bb on the turn

what vmacosta said about sb not leading turn with a hand we beat is a valid point, however, there are plenty of hands with a 9 villain could be pushing through and IMO the benefits of waiting for the turn to take initiative outweigh the equity edge we might be giving up on the flop

when we build a big pot on the flop, we will still not have defined our hand to know where we're at and our turn decision could get a lot more difficult because of that, possibly tying us to the pot way behind or even drawing dead