6.50 KK early...can I fold???please???

[NU Star]

Why are people having problems with the raise?

[hantori]

10bb's? Where do you want to start....

[Wolverine]

OP sounds pretty desperate to fold judging by the title.

[NU Star]

[ QUOTE ]
10bb's? Where do you want to start....

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's good at this level. I wouldn't raise much less.

[sixfour]

My standard would be 250-300 at this stage with this many limpers.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]

So I take your advice: one player limps in EP, folds to me on the button, I raise to t200 with KK. Let's say a limper calls with 55, flops a set, and stacks me. The limper called t160 more to win the t1300 i had left, meaning he got 8.125-1 odds on his call, which is just about profitable for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he does flop a set, you'll still catch a king almost 10% on turn or river. Plus you'll both flop a set occasionally. Plus you'll flop a 3-4 flush that comes in vs. his set occasionally. So even though he's 7.5:1 for flopping a set, to actually win the hand vs. an overpair is more likely closer to 10:1. And that's not the whole picture - those times he does lose he's losing his T1500 stack which means he needs much greater implied odds than 10:1 to profitably call.

Edit - btw this is all talked about in NLHETAP.

[Xanthro]

I'm sure you wouldn't have posted this except he turned over AA.

Overtime, at a $6.50 STT getting all in pre-flop with KK in the same situation is so profitable it's not even funny.

People will limp and minraise with the most insane hands at this level. They are horrible players and think they can simply steal the pot with the minraise.

Now, every once in a while this person will have AA, but if you simply fold your KK you are throwing away a large sum of money.

[IcemanDan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So I take your advice: one player limps in EP, folds to me on the button, I raise to t200 with KK. Let's say a limper calls with 55, flops a set, and stacks me. The limper called t160 more to win the t1300 i had left, meaning he got 8.125-1 odds on his call, which is just about profitable for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he does flop a set, you'll still catch a king almost 10% on turn or river. Plus you'll both flop a set occasionally. Plus you'll flop a 3-4 flush that comes in vs. his set occasionally. So even though he's 7.5:1 for flopping a set, to actually win the hand vs. an overpair is more likely closer to 10:1. And that's not the whole picture - those times he does lose he's losing his T1500 stack which means he needs much greater implied odds than 10:1 to profitably call.

Edit - btw this is all talked about in NLHETAP.

[/ QUOTE ]


Whaaat? So you won't call a raise with a low pocket pair in a cash game unless you're getting BETTER than 10-1 implied odds?

Edit: obviously there are other factors involved like position, tendencies of opponent, but those would all seem to make you want even better odds on the call.

[Sober]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you wouldn't have posted this except he turned over AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the way he's talked about the hand, it sounds like he flat called the raise and stacked off to a set of 5's.

Stop being results oriented, man. I see people doing this with A5s all day at the 16's and 27's. You have the second best possible preflop hand, DO NOT FOLD.

If you are so afraid of someone flopping a set and beating you postflop, then take that edge away by PUSHING here (which you should anyway).

Just push and shut up shut up shut up when your KK gets busted.

[ADLinden]

dont fold