#1
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[50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed)
SB ($86.40) Hero ($52.00) UTG ($44.80) Button ($47.00) Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1.75</font>, Hero calls $1.50. Flop: ($3.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets $2</font>, Hero calls $2. Turn: ($7.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4. River: ($15.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10. Obviously reads help a lot here but I had none. I'm a bit torn between the two concepts: - Define your hand with a raise, so you won't keep calling off your stack with a medium hand (as Harrington suggests in his books) - Raising only folds out worse hands, so why not just call down on this dry board and let him hang himself if he has a worse hand? I find the second reasoning much more appealing, but I'm still not really happy about the way I played this hand. |
#2
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
Aren't you just letting QQ+ or a set stack you this way every single time? I'm a little confused why you think it's ok to call all the way w/o any idea of his holdings.
I don't like this play. I went along this exact same line once and the villain has hit a small set on the flop. Got pretty much stacked very nicely because I _assumed_ I had the best hand. |
#3
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
[ QUOTE ]
Aren't you just letting QQ+ or a set stack you this way every single time? I'm a little confused why you think it's ok to call all the way w/o any idea of his holdings. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this line would suck against QQ+ or a set, but the best line against those would be to fold preflop/the flop. I have to find a best line against his entire _range_. What if he's holding KJ QJ and thinks he is valuebetting? What if he has TT? AK? All those hands would get away cheap if I raised somewhere. |
#4
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
I cannot see AK firing 3 shots here a lot. Same goes for TT.
At best you're against KJ, maybe but not very likely QJ (this is assuming you don't have an image of a complete calling station, which you probably don't). So consider the range being QQ+, KJ, AJ and sets (if he 3-barrels). What are you ahead of? KJ? EDIT: I'd add to the range AhKh, AhQh, KhQh, QhJh and JhTh, where he could/would also 3-barrel and where you'd be behind by the river in this hand. I think overall this play is fine IF he doesn't PB the river. If he does I'm guessing your hand is no good. |
#5
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
why arn't you raising PF? Then if he donk bets you on the flop, you have a clearer idea of where you stand.
Mistakes on an earlier street will lead to a lot more mistakes on later streets Crovax |
#6
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
[ QUOTE ]
why arn't you raising PF? Then if he donk bets you on the flop, you have a clearer idea of where you stand. Mistakes on an earlier street will lead to a lot more mistakes on later streets Crovax [/ QUOTE ] Cold-calling pf is hardly a massive mistake, and has very little to do with what the OP was wondering about I just noticed that this is blind vs blind, which along with the fact that he only 1/2 potted the flop and turn makes me think calling him down here is fine. You might well get some value from a worse jack by raising though |
#7
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
I stoved some ranges (I think you need to add some more random bluff hands or one AKo/TT combo), but it still isn't looking good on the river. I can agree with the river being a fold. So my main questions are about flop/turn play.
On the flop I could have raised for the same money which now allowed me to see a river card. Worse hands would have folded to the flop raise but they now have put in a turn bet, so for the same money I get more value out of worse hands, while losing the same against better hands, right? [ QUOTE ] why arn't you raising PF? Then if he donk bets you on the flop, you have a clearer idea of where you stand. Mistakes on an earlier street will lead to a lot more mistakes on later streets [/ QUOTE ] Again a bit of the same reasoning (and not much experience with sb opening ranges in a BvB battle). He will fold worse hands, I'm folding if he 4bets with QQ KK and forfeit my chance of spiking an ace. Furthermore, I keep the pot smaller to use my post-flop positional advantage. If I 3bet and he calls, I flop an ace or a jack I'm still not happy getting a lot of action. |
#8
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
I don't like just calling him down. You're giving someone with a Q or K free shots to draw out on you. I think you could make a reasonable argument for smooth calling the fop because it is so dry, although I generally wouldn't do that with a hand so weak. But I think I'm raising the turn. You'll get more value out of your hand this way versus other J’s, you'll put pressure on someone with a draw if they've picked one up, and you're defining your hand versus a potentially bigger hand.
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#9
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
I don't think KJ-JT fold to a flop raise
As played I also can't find a fold on the river |
#10
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Re: [50NL] Raise \"to define my hand\" or just call down?
I like it. Raising is quite retarded.
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