VH1's "The Pick up Artist"

[RayPowers]

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I don't think you can look at Mystery himself to see if his methods are capable of sustaining a healthy relationship. He was suicidal at multiple points in the book, he was pretty clearly an emotional mess who cared more about picking up women than about himself. Just because he himself lacks the depth to enter into a real relationship doesn't mean that it's impossible any more so than it takes a world class athlete to be a coach.

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That's fair, I was merely pointing it out as evidence, but you can say its not fair evidence. It is not, however contrary to my point that his methods are devised to create a quick high level of interest that is almost impossible to maintain.

Ray

[Alamo]

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And no, I def realize that being able to know the cues of how to pick up a girl is important, a good looking guy who knows what he is doing is going to have an easier time than a PUA obv. Usually good looking guys develop this stuff much more naturally though, than having to read.

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Agreed on the last part, somewhat disagreed on the first part, based on own experience.

My two best friends are very much naturals. One of them is a dark skinned mix, father from Surinam, mother is white and from Europe. He is the typical guy that everybody likes, it is just like he oozes some secret pheromone that makes all people want to talk to him. Charming, tall, witty, handsome, clever, he is the posterboy for being a natural.

The other guy is a white guy, has a big tattoo on his back/arm, tough guy, boxer, jaws like in the cartoons. They don't come more masculine really. Have witnessed several times with both guys that girls just offer themselves, as in "take me home with you please".

Then there is me. Lol. Not exactly bad looking, able to strike up an interesting convo, but going out with these major league alpha's was out of my comfort zone, and at times pretty frustrating, for obvious reasons. The only reason I stuck to going out with these guys is simple, we are just really good friends.

Upside of course was I had my share of spoils pre-pua days, just because when we went for a night on the town, the chicks were all around us.

Whenever I would have a lapse of self confidence, sometimes caused by going out with these guys, they were like: "Oh man, you just have to do so and so, and act so and so, and the chicks love it". Which would not help me a single bit of course, since I failed to grasp what they actually meant, and they were not able to word it. Hence the word natural, as in unconsciously able.

So, I discovered and did the PUA, and slowly but surely I was able to hold my own when going out with these guys. After that, I sometimes even had first pick so to speak. It was a remarkable time, as everything in my life seemed to start falling into place. Not only with girls, but I developed the guts to go for the career I really aspired, bought a house, and basically did a lot of things I always postponed.

You are right about the fact that good looking guys will get their attention, but several times I have stood around with these guys, and have a woman become totally oblivous of them due to the things I had learned. So it is possible to kinda artificially get to the same level, and I am by *no means* a full fledged PUA that is able to pick up girls on the fly, but the lack of fear of rejection that I apparently ooze is a big step towards generating interest I guess.

My point is the following: if I can hold my own between these two guys who can pick up girls just like that, it would be very interesting to how an average looking guy that is really really good at PUA would do "versus" these friends of mine.

Of course, throw in the famous factor (as in Pitt or Clooney), and the balance shifts again I guess.

This would make for damned good television really...Idea for a sequel?

[guids]

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well i know almost nothing about mystery except for watching his new show and hearing about how awesome he is from a buddy who works on it. But considering he lives in la and assuming he is one of the best PUA (top 1%...doesn't matter) yes i'd say it's likely that out of the last 300 girls he's slept with, most of them are probably at least a solid 8.

But i agree with you on the no real desire to nail everything that moves... but at least i would concede that it is not the easiest thing to find hot girls to take home every time you go out, and mystery is probably better then most and certainly would have better results then me.

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If I lived in LA, from what I understand I have no doubt I could nail at least a 7 at will any night of the week. Is there a will to do so? not really. Once you get passed a certain point with this kind of stuff, its not hard to go home with whomever you choose for the night, its just that in most peoples cases there just arent enough hot chicks out there to go around. I think there is a huge difference between being a PUA, and being good at picking up chicks. Yes, he is probably in the top 1% of PUAs, but they are still a tier below naturally good looking guys (who arent retards w/ chicks), rock stars, actors, etc. PUA gives ALL guys no matter what you look liek a good basis to pick up girls, but that doesnt mean that even if you are the best at applying what you read in a PUA book, that some brad pitt look alike doesnt have a million times better chance at nailing the girl first.

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all extremes aside, IMO if you think looks are way more important than having game, you are hugely wrong.

also IMO if you think mystery or any other of the top guys out there are peanuts compared to someone that looks really good, you are also wrong.

game is much more important, and its not even close, i dont care to write out a diatribe why /right now/, but maybe someone competent like yugo can explain if you need convincing


also i want to take time to refute something that i hear alot which is total [censored]. people say something like "oh well i dont want to [censored] girls all the time / i want a solid relationship instead / etc.", that may be true, but what one has to recognize here is, if you can't get laid frequently, you have no options, so you can't [censored] decide what you want. because relationships only start once you have sex. its highly contraversial, but there, i [censored] said it, and thats my opinion.

dice

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I never said looks are way more important


And yes mystery and those guys are peanuts compared to someone like Brad Pitt, its not even close.

Game is most important, but 90% of the time truly good lookign guys dont need a book on it and its just natural, so its not really "game", its just what they learned works.

most guys dont want to start a relationship with a girl that falls for the pua stuff and sleeps w/ them on teh first night.

[guids]

Alamo,


do you think this is true or false:


those two guys that you hung with, if they made a conscience effort to become better at picking up girls, rather than relying on natural instincts would blow you out of the water as far as sexing chicks?

[Alamo]

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Alamo,


do you think this is true or false:


those two guys that you hung with, if they made a conscience effort to become better at picking up girls, rather than relying on natural instincts would blow you out of the water as far as sexing chicks?

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Hard to answer this question, I can see this happening in both scenarios.

Consciously learning this stuff might tarnish why they were attractive to women to begin with, and maybe would cramp their style.

Otoh, it might also turn them into women-devouring freaks, even though with these specific guys I am having a hard time to believe that, since I have never witnessed them being rejected. I know these guys for over 25 years fwiw.
So they would have no real need to learn this stuff anyway.

I am honestly unable to come up with an answer to your question really. I think they would not need to learn this stuff to begin with.

[guids]

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Alamo,


do you think this is true or false:


those two guys that you hung with, if they made a conscience effort to become better at picking up girls, rather than relying on natural instincts would blow you out of the water as far as sexing chicks?

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Hard to answer this question, I can see this happening in both scenarios.

Consciously learning this stuff might tarnish why they were attractive to women to begin with, and maybe would cramp their style.

Otoh, it might also turn them into women-devouring freaks, even though with these specific guys I am having a hard time to believe that, since I have never witnessed them being rejected. I know these guys for over 25 years fwiw.
So they would have no real need to learn this stuff anyway.

I am honestly unable to come up with an answer to your question really. I think they would not need to learn this stuff to begin with.

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Consciously learning this stuff might tarnish why they were attractive to women to begin with, and maybe would cramp their style.


Personally, when I found out about the PUA stuff, it helped me quantify what was already doing, which helped out immensely.

[Alamo]

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Personally, when I found out about the PUA stuff, it helped me quantify what was already doing, which helped out immensely.

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I am baffled really, you gave the impression you never needed this stuff. So, you added the reasoning to the natural style you already posessed. Nice.

I came from way behind you, as in useless with women, and now I am married to exactly the type of girl I wanted. Worked and works for me.

Question: how did you find out about the whole PUA thing? Did you consciously look for it, or just stumbled upon it? What material did you read and use to up your game?

I found out by some spam I received about pheromone perfume. Did a search on internet, nothing useful, went to the newsgroups, did the same search, stumbled upon alt.seduction.fast, found out they had a moderated version on a website, clicked on "you are new" and the rest is history.

[guids]

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Personally, when I found out about the PUA stuff, it helped me quantify what was already doing, which helped out immensely.

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I am baffled really, you gave the impression you never needed this stuff. So, you added the reasoning to the natural style you already posessed. Nice.

I came from way behind you, as in useless with women, and now I am married to exactly the type of girl I wanted. Worked and works for me.

Question: how did you find out about the whole PUA thing? Did you consciously look for it, or just stumbled upon it? What material did you read and use to up your game?

I found out by some spam I received about pheromone perfume. Did a search on internet, nothing useful, went to the newsgroups, did the same search, stumbled upon alt.seduction.fast, found out they had a moderated version on a website, clicked on "you are new" and the rest is history.

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I never needed this stuff per se, but ya, after hearing about it from someone on this forum, and discussing it, you are able to quantify what you know, and become a tad more logical about things. I still havent read anything on it other than what people have posted here.

[BDaws]

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There's actually a show on Fuse (Directv channel 339) called "Keys to the VIP" which is shot in Toronto, where two guys compete against each other in 3 different pick-up challenges and there is a panel of analysts. Pretty similar setup as far as filming in the club (some faces are shown, some blurred etc.), but it's entertaining.

Here's a Youtube clip of this show.

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This clip is definitely worth watching.

[The Yugoslavian]

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His method generates a high level of interest early he himself is incapable of maintaining,


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This is untrue and irrelevant as it doesn't have to do with his method but with him. If your gripe is that Mystery doesn't stay in long term relationships long enough...there are dozens of counter examples among the PUAs he taught, Neil Strauss being a notable example.

There is no lack of evidence that his "method" helps men create relationships. From your posts you seemed quite familiar with his model and concepts but saying it only establishes attraction leads me to believe you don't understand it at all. If you're point is merely that it doesn't cover relationship dynamics once a sexual relationship is in place, you are correct, that is outside the scope of the pickup community (although initial forays as I've mentioned somewhere are taking place).

But it's important to note that distinction. The pickup community provides for laying a groundwork to help men seek whatever type of relationship they want with women.

Yugoslav