FTP $163 QQ preflop

_JoeJimJoe · #1 08-05-2007, 03:47 PM

I have been pretty active and taking down most pots no showdown. I have flopped like 3 sets and running hot so everything i've shown down has been a monster. UTG is unknown UTG+1 has shoved like 3 out of the last 10 hands and never been called. Who 4 bet shoves and anyone consider folding as played?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t120/t240
(Ante: t25)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t10285
UTG+1: t4074
MP1: t7195
Hero: t21568
MP3: t15515
CO: t11875
Button: t5321
SB: t5019
BB: t9760

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG raises to t650, UTG+1 raises all-in t4049, MP1 folds, Hero calls t4049 (pot was t5284), 5 folds, UTG raises all-in t10260, Hero calls t6211 (pot was t18943).

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t17416, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: t12732, Sidepot 1: t4684)

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t17416, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: t12732, Sidepot 1: t4684)

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t17416, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: t12732, Sidepot 1: t4684)

Results:
Final pot: t17416

markbris · #2 08-05-2007, 10:39 PM

I move here probably and try to isolate. You probably have UTG+1's range destroyed since he has been active and as long as utg doesn't have AA or KK you're in good shape. Even if you he does you have some extra money in the pot and a chance to win. So i go for it here.

Stumpy · #3 08-06-2007, 02:04 AM

Yeah, don't fold.

I would shove to isolate, but UTG+1 shoving 4/10 hands is obviously going to make you call/shove lighter, and UTG knows this.
Given UTG only has 10k, you calling or shoving will probably not change his action.

You certainly can't fold when he shoves, there's 15k in the pot and 6k to call. He'd have to be QQ+ for folding to be right.

4CardStraight · #4 08-06-2007, 02:17 AM

I would over shove. I dont think it matters much.

Do you want AK coming along if thats what UTG has? I think most people would say yes, since were ahead of it, but if I can Iso QQ vs an underpair and be 80/20 i think thats better than being 40/8/32 with QQ/underpair/AK... now we cant know what were against, but I think in tournaments its ok to want to isolate with a big pair, sure we gain thin +chipEV if we go three ways, but we go from winning 80% of the time, to only winning 40% of the time... I think it depends how much better than the field you are to say its clear we would actually WANT AK to come along for the ride, if we are way better than the field maybe we want AK to muck, whatever you know it really doesnt matter much he prolly calls with AK anyway even if you overshove.

On the flip side of the coin, do we really entice him to call weakly when we flat? or over push with a weaker hand? Boy I think that is pretty thin, UTG+1 pretty clearly put the smack down on any thoughts of playing a weak hand here

In fact, I think this thread is probably just an over-think, stacks are relatively small, we go all in with QQ. Did we get outdrawn or just happened to run into a bigger hand? Oh well, thats poker. I sure as Frig dont fold as played.

Stumpy · #5 08-06-2007, 02:56 AM

4Card, with all the overlay in the pot you definitely don't want hands you're anywhere close to 50/50 against calling.

With UTGs stack size, you'd want a 40/60 hand to fold here for sure.

tomek322 · #6 08-06-2007, 10:43 AM

I actually just call hoping to get UTG in the hand.

If you shove he may either think your isolating with some mid pair or think you have a monster and fold some hand you are beating. By calling I think you are more likely to get action. IMHO.

chh · #7 08-06-2007, 11:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I actually just call hoping to get UTG in the hand.

If you shove he may either think your isolating with some mid pair or think you have a monster and fold some hand you are beating. By calling I think you are more likely to get action. IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems like a mistake. I definitely will do that with AA, and sometimes with KK. With QQ I definitely want to get the money in PF here. What if he overcalls, overcards come and he pushes into you? Just keep it simple, maximize your chance at the nice main pot and push it in

tomek322 · #8 08-06-2007, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually just call hoping to get UTG in the hand.

If you shove he may either think your isolating with some mid pair or think you have a monster and fold some hand you are beating. By calling I think you are more likely to get action. IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems like a mistake. I definitely will do that with AA, and sometimes with KK. With QQ I definitely want to get the money in PF here. What if he overcalls, overcards come and he pushes into you? Just keep it simple, maximize your chance at the nice main pot and push it in

[/ QUOTE ]

To each his own. If it come AKx. I probably fold. Saving myself the 6k that I would of lost had I pushed and he called with AK anyway.

Jake M. · #9 08-15-2007, 04:50 AM

I don't like your play with QQ. I probably would have re-raised all in over the top so that it drives out the UTG player *assuming he doesnt have AA or KK* Also another thing to consider is that there is action still behind you. I think it's a dump after the UTG player moves all in. He has to have AA, maybe KK. AK even doubtful.

MJBuddy · #10 08-15-2007, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually just call hoping to get UTG in the hand.

If you shove he may either think your isolating with some mid pair or think you have a monster and fold some hand you are beating. By calling I think you are more likely to get action. IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems like a mistake. I definitely will do that with AA, and sometimes with KK. With QQ I definitely want to get the money in PF here. What if he overcalls, overcards come and he pushes into you? Just keep it simple, maximize your chance at the nice main pot and push it in

[/ QUOTE ]

To each his own. If it come AKx. I probably fold. Saving myself the 6k that I would of lost had I pushed and he called with AK anyway.

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Results oriented. What happens when the flop comes K76? What if the flop is 732? You lose value from AK by not getting all their chips and letting them escape.