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#12
08-13-2007, 05:27 PM
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Re: Is this an angle-shot?
This would be more interesting if the old man's cards were not identifiable. As is, it is a joke that he's not awarded the pot. From mere virtue of the younging still arguing after oldie shows, it's clear that he's a douche and was most likely intentionally angling.
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#14
08-13-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: Is this an angle-shot?
[ QUOTE ]
If you table your hand regardless of what you have said your opponet needs to table a better hand to get the pot period. [/ QUOTE ] Not true at all. If young guy first says, "I've got aces full" without tabling a hand and the old guy mucks, then young guy tables his hand, it's well established that young guy must have shown down aces full to win the pot. If he has overrepresented his hand verbally at showdown, then his hand is dead and old guy wins as last live hand. IIRC some California rooms (Commerce?) spell this out in the rules but it's a pretty well-established principle. Now, that's just to say that SOME verbal angle-shots will lose you the pot. Whether "Take it" falls in that category or in the "You've probably got me beat," category is debatable. I tend to interpret it as "I fold," since the other interpretation does more to lend itself to angle shots. Certainly young guy's raising a furor also seems to suggest he may have been shooting angles. But of course old guy should know to protect his hand unless he's a cardroom neophyte. The response to "Take it," is, "Muck, please, and I will," or just sit there waiting for young guy to table.
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#15
08-13-2007, 06:34 PM
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Re: Is this an angle-shot?
Saying "take it" is not an angle shot. The young guy did not muck or say "I fold". It never ceases to amaze me at the inability of people to table a hand. That said, the old guy should win the pot if he can retrieve his hand and show that it is better than his opponent's hand.
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#16
08-13-2007, 07:21 PM
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Re: Is this an angle-shot?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you table your hand regardless of what you have said your opponet needs to table a better hand to get the pot period. [/ QUOTE ] Not true at all. If young guy first says, "I've got aces full" without tabling a hand and the old guy mucks, then young guy tables his hand, it's well established that young guy must have shown down aces full to win the pot. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not a B&M pro by any means, but I don't think this is true. The oldest angle shoot in the book is misrepresenting your hand at showdown in an attempt to get your opponent to fold a winner. I've read many stories about this here and have never seen the rule you state enforced anywhere personally (in Europe and MGM) nor heard about it. Also, to anyone saying this is not an angle: [ QUOTE ] Young guy then jumps up and demands the pot claiming the old guy mucked [/ QUOTE ] Please...
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#17
08-13-2007, 07:23 PM
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Re: Is this an angle-shot?
Why would anyone muck until the chips are in their hand or pushed to another player?
People say "You got me" or "Take it" all the time, while showing their hands. It's just an indication that the player believes he or she it beat. It doesn't mean a fold. Perhaps somepeople use this as an angle shot, but you have to protect your hand. To do otherwise is to simply throw money away. It's like people who open muck the flop. Had that happen to me when the river counterfieted my pocket pair and left me playing the board with no kicker. Best I could do is chop, and player open mucks and gives me the hand. Just stupid.
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#18
08-13-2007, 10:05 PM
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Re: Is this an angle-shot?
[ QUOTE ]
Not true at all. If young guy first says, "I've got aces full" without tabling a hand and the old guy mucks, then young guy tables his hand, it's well established that young guy must have shown down aces full to win the pot. If he has overrepresented his hand verbally at showdown, then his hand is dead and old guy wins as last live hand. IIRC some California rooms (Commerce?) spell this out in the rules but it's a pretty well-established principle. [/ QUOTE ] This assumes you don't table your hand untill after your opponet has mucked and I would agree it does represent an angle shoot but in the OP the person said "take it" and tabled his hand before the Old man mucked. I view this situation as described as being the same as someone misreading his hand and mucking a winner.
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