VP$IP Question

[chrisyt]

VP$IP is voluntery put in pot yes
but how is it calculated
TP is telling me i call to much
if i played less starting hands would that bring down the VP$IP figure?
(like i think i'm pretty tight there but. . .)
but also if somebody raises and i "oh well in for a pound"
which i'm sure i do all the time) callem. that goes towards the VP$IP figure?
i take it that after the flop, calling a raise or bet doesn't count towards the figure?
but calling before does.

so its not how many starting hands/games you play but how much money/BB's as a percentage of the hands you play that go to the figure?

trying to improve here, and failing miserably but working on it, cheers you guys brill forum.

[raze]

A hand counts towards your VPIP anytime you voluntarily put in money (strictly pre-flop), so anytime you limp, raise, re-raise, call a raise, complete the small blind, etc, even if you fold to a later raise at anytime. Checking in the BB does not count because this blind is a forced bet, not a voluntary bet.

Say you play 4 hands.
#1 you limp PF, and fold to a raise. This counts.
#2 you fold. Doesn't count.
#3 check in the BB. Doesn't count.
#4 Everyone folds, and you complete the SB. Counts.

VPIP is 50% over this stretch.

[uDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
...but also if somebody raises and i "oh well in for a pound" which i'm sure i do all the time) callem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need a much better reason than that to call. That's a pretty clear indication you are playing too many hands. That is the most common mistake people make.

I've seen 40% VP$IP players telling 60% VP$IP players they are "fish". I can only smile, as 40% is well into the fish category too. To win, you must play MUCH tighter. The correct number depends on the game and your opponents, but ~30% is the high end for 6-max games. I think 25% would be somewhat loose in a full ring game. {Edit: these numbers are for limit HE.)

[chrisyt]

Thanks Raze
from your example 50%
is that in 50% of hands you put money in, or
you Voluntery put in 2 Big bets out of 4 games

i mean in (say) one hand you called (1 bet)
it was raised and you called again (1 more bet)
total 2 bets in one hand
next game you fold
is that 50% or 66%
i.e. in two games you volantery played one game hence 50%
or 66% i.e. out of three opportunities you called two of them and folded the third 2/3.
umm put another way.
is it the games in which you've called/bet/etc that count or
or the number of times you've called given the opportunity.
(sorry if this seems a bit nit picking and thankyou for your time.)

uDevil currently my VP$IP it about 30%
and i wanted to get that little eagle thing! and i was all 'Mouse' waiting to be aggressive (started at a new site so new stats)but then went back to me old calling station thing, so i'm all sad.
it's important ok! lol

anyway one more question if thats ok (and i do appreciate your guys time)

sb bb next bets you have (say) KJo (change this hand if it dont fit the example) you call.
it goes round with a raise back to you.
now here i always call that next raise.
and i think thats where all the calls are comming from.
I just cant figure that if you've decided to play a game with a hand, that if it's risen back to you, why fold.
what difference does it make?
does it change the odds in anyway?
if 4 players put in 4 bets(total) with your KJo (or whatever)
does it make any difference if 4 players put in 16 bets(total, 4 each) to your KJo (or whatever) arn't the odds the same?
tho many seem to say now fold?
dont get this.
(not playing 6 max only the 10 (thing) and limit
till i've sussed it.)
cheers
chris

[xMars]

"I just cant figure that if you've decided to play a game with a hand, that if it's risen back to you, why fold."

wow, just wow

[chrisyt]

if you mean wow you dont understand why i dont understand i mean this.
i understand that the idea is that somebody raising signifys that they have a better hand. tho that depends upon that persons thinking as to weather it is or not and your conclusion as to if it is or is not.
i dont get it if it alters the odds as both are 4-1 i.e. all just called or it got capped.

[xMars]

it all depends on how big a raise is, how much credit u give the raiser, how much you like your own hand etc.

for example, if u minraise/limp with a pp and there is some action you can still call (if no monsterraise) for set value.

if the raise is called by several others you can call too, if you can be sure that noone else will reraise, with suitedconnectors which are great in multiway pots.

a KJ on the other hand is easily dominated if you hit a piece of the flop. a K-9-4 flop is hardly any good, u might be easily dominated by AK, or even KQ

[raze]

I get what you're saying.

The VP$IP statistic does not have anything to do with amounts of money. It is strictly a function of 'did the player put in money or not'. Simply yes, or no, never an amount.

[ QUOTE ]

mean in (say) one hand you called (1 bet)
it was raised and you called again (1 more bet)
total 2 bets in one hand
next game you fold
is that 50% or 66%
i.e. in two games you volantery played one game hence 50%
or 66% i.e. out of three opportunities you called two of them and folded the third 2/3.


[/ QUOTE ]

Each single hand you play can only return a 'yes, he put in money' or 'no, he didn't put in any money'. So a total of 2 bets in one hand (or 1 bet, or 3, or 4) is simply a 'yes' for your VPIP, and your VP$IP will increase accordingly. So it's 50% for 1 out of 2 hands played [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]

sb bb next bets you have (say) KJo (change this hand if it dont fit the example) you call.
it goes round with a raise back to you.
now here i always call that next raise.
and i think thats where all the calls are comming from.
I just cant figure that if you've decided to play a game with a hand, that if it's risen back to you, why fold.
what difference does it make?


[/ QUOTE ]

My example must have been misleading, my bad. This hand (and any hand) is a VP$IP hand from the instant you make any call or any raise; it doesn't matter what you do afterwards.

As far as putting in money and then folding to a raise... this is mostly applicable to No Limit, where you might call $4 with KJo and then later fold to a $30 raise. Or, in limit, if you call with 22 in early position, and then it gets raised and capped behind you, you probably should consider folding pre-flop rather than put in 3 more bets (this is still a VP$IP hand because you initially called).

Hope this helps

[chrisyt]

Nope Raze your example was excellent.
and explained it perfectly, was just that little point, which again you have succinctly explained (unlike my endless waffle!)(which i do do)(as you can see)
Thanks so Tighter it is then!!!
cheers uDevil and Raze, i know what to do now
thanks