Theory - Late Stages

[timmay28]

Lately I've been skimming poker books and the one from Full Tilt has a chapter written by Gavin Smith, who says he almost never reraises. Instead, he basically said he prefers to pinpoint loose/passive & predictable players, call them with any two cards, and bluff away postflop if he senses weakness.

Thought that was an interesting concept worth sharing here.

[Yoshi63]

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Lately I've been skimming poker books and the one from Full Tilt has a chapter written by Gavin Smith, who says he almost never reraises. Instead, he basically said he prefers to pinpoint loose/passive & predictable players, call them with any two cards, and bluff away postflop if he senses weakness.

Thought that was an interesting concept worth sharing here.

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This is a squeezer's paradise [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

ducy?

[black666]

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One thing about folding small pairs in EP. A lot of people fold them with less than 12 BB. Personally I don't, because I think if I can limp (raising is bad, pushing is probably fine a lot of the time depending on the situation) then I'm doubling or sometimes trippling through with a set.

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I don't like this. It's just a waste of chips and you can't afford this as a shortstack.
If someone behind you raises, you are forced to fold. And even if it is a limped pot...the flop comes out with 1 or 2 overcards - what now? You can't bet for information without committing yourself. Even if you flop your set, it's so hard to double up because it's a limped pot.

You either waste chips or put yourself in an awkward spot with a difficult decision.

[Rocco]

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One thing about folding small pairs in EP. A lot of people fold them with less than 12 BB. Personally I don't, because I think if I can limp (raising is bad, pushing is probably fine a lot of the time depending on the situation) then I'm doubling or sometimes trippling through with a set.

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I don't like this. It's just a waste of chips and you can't afford this as a shortstack.
If someone behind you raises, you are forced to fold. And even if it is a limped pot...the flop comes out with 1 or 2 overcards - what now? You can't bet for information without committing yourself. Even if you flop your set, it's so hard to double up because it's a limped pot.

You either waste chips or put yourself in an awkward spot with a difficult decision.

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x2

Doubling or trippling up with a set is always nice, but you don't have enough implied odds to open-limp/set-mine with small pairs having less than 12BB. Let's say you open-limp 55 in EP, and see a raise to 3xBB plus a cold-caller. Now, you have to put in 2 BB's more just because odds are great. Flop comes with three overcards. In the next round or two, you have to pay the blinds, and just like that, you're down to 7 BB's and lost almost all your FE. That scenario is way more likely to happen than trippling up with a flopped set.

[Dave D]

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One thing about folding small pairs in EP. A lot of people fold them with less than 12 BB. Personally I don't, because I think if I can limp (raising is bad, pushing is probably fine a lot of the time depending on the situation) then I'm doubling or sometimes trippling through with a set.

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I don't like this. It's just a waste of chips and you can't afford this as a shortstack.
If someone behind you raises, you are forced to fold. And even if it is a limped pot...the flop comes out with 1 or 2 overcards - what now? You can't bet for information without committing yourself. Even if you flop your set, it's so hard to double up because it's a limped pot.

You either waste chips or put yourself in an awkward spot with a difficult decision.

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x2

Doubling or trippling up with a set is always nice, but you don't have enough implied odds to open-limp/set-mine with small pairs having less than 12BB. Let's say you open-limp 55 in EP, and see a raise to 3xBB plus a cold-caller. Now, you have to put in 2 BB's more just because odds are great. Flop comes with three overcards. In the next round or two, you have to pay the blinds, and just like that, you're down to 7 BB's and lost almost all your FE. That scenario is way more likely to happen than trippling up with a flopped set.

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The point I was making is to *not* call any reraises and hope that everyone limps. If someone raises we fold because we would have folded anyway and it's only a 1BB loss. I look at a 9BB stack as the same as a 10BB stack basically. But I'm bascially wasting my time if I don't double through soon.

As a shorty, doubling through happens a lot if we hit a set because often someone will bet the flop, and then the turn, and they figure becuasae you're so short it's worth calling you wide and that you could be bluffing. I mean, it's just been my experiance, especially once we're ITM and people are playing a lot looser and recklessly.

[BAK]

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Lately I've been skimming poker books and the one from Full Tilt has a chapter written by Gavin Smith, who says he almost never reraises. Instead, he basically said he prefers to pinpoint loose/passive & predictable players, call them with any two cards, and bluff away postflop if he senses weakness.

Thought that was an interesting concept worth sharing here.

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This same book also has a chapter by Andy Bloch that has the charts I think the OP is looking for. He lists each position and which hands to open for a raise and all kinds of interesting stuff. Good stuff.

[helter skelter]

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I'm sure there's a lot of good advice in this thread, but if you haven't studied the MTTc forum's animated HH library you're missing out on the best ... plenty of real life illustrations on how to play the stack/blind ratios that you struggle with.

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Which ones on this list should I view? I just want to see the good players, rather than someone who got lucky and posted his win.

[jcg2005]

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Resteals are really about a very simple issue, and this is why we do what I suggest in the second tip. We are looking for players that both Raise too loose, AND call too tight. Why I am taking notes is, if I see a guy call with QTo after he raises and gets shoved on, well, I will not ever be restealing with junk on that guy, but I will certainly 3bet him slightly wider for Value. Likewise if I see a guy fold to a 3bet after raising, then I am slightly more inclined to resteal from him. It also lets me identify who at the table are the restealers. People that resteal dont do it just once and never again, they often become habitual restealers. This is pretty easy to discern, because the range at which we can 3bet for value is so incredibly tight. People only get 3% top hands after a raiser so often. If I see someone 3bet twice inside of three orbits, well... odds are pretty good they are light restealing as opposed to just getting good cards. These people I will generally call with anything I had raised with.


Do I really have charts made for where my hand is mathematically the best? Yes, several... I have a jam or fold chart that I use for 20bb, 15bb, 10bb, and 5bb. But this alone does not make my play completely algorithmic or anything. These charts simply show me which hands are more +chipEV to open push as opposed to fold. They arent perfect for several reasons. First, they assume that opponents are calling me optimally, which they dont. As a general rule people call too tight. Second, they assume a stance of +chipEV and not +$EV, my chips in my stack are worth more than the ones I can win (see sklansky), and therefore my chips have a premium. Note also that these first two major issues counterbalance. My opponents are too tight from optimal, but my chips are worth more, so I should be pushing slightly looser for reason one, but slightly tighter for reason two. Third, They only show wether open pushing is more +cEV than folding. Open raising might be the most +cEV, and these tables dont discuss that.

The reason I find them quite valuable is the insight they provide. Most people have no idea just how tight you need to be in the first couple positions, due to the math odds of someone having a hand that dominates you, multiplied by the number of opponents yet to act. Secondly, most people have no idea just how wide you can open push from button or small blind with relatively small stacks. Third, those that do recognize how wide you should be pushing late often adopt a push any two strategy, and this only works for so long, since our opponents can adjust to our play. I find that if I really open push from the charts, that it automatically finds a good balance, of pushing enough to stay ahead of the curve, yet not pushing so much that it affects my opponents play. These hands from the charts allow me to simply not care if I get called behind or not. Even if I am called optimally, its +EV push to the tune of margin of error of the blinds, so whatever. And finally, at the top end there are hands that I want to encourage action, and these can be balanced by hands slightly under the range that I can raise steal without open pushing.

4card

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Plz post more. TY for this, absolutely awesome.