400nl - TPTK no good in this 3bet pot?

[Jamougha]

If folding is correct then it's due to a really spectacular read on the player that none of us have.

[Jay Riall]

Don't bet flop if your not snapcalling this shove.

[pmuir10]

[ QUOTE ]
cbet 90% (random # but prob close) flops with this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


this is another good reason to call. villain could easily be playing back at what he thinks is possible light 3betting.

[BlackAMEX]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are we assuming that a solid villain calls a 3bet with sc or Ac ragc oop?

That line by him on the flop could mean that he is representing a draw with KK/AA/set.
All we really hope for is that he has something like AcJc and has only flush outs...

i base my flop decision here on 1 PaHud stat - call preflop %.If he has a high% (over 10, i'd say), then his range is wider and includes a lot of naked FD, Ac5c types of hands.If it's below 5%, i'd really think twice before calling here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read all responses to this thread and I thank you all.

Black Winter basically represnts my thought process. FWIW some of my reason was folding was because of feel (although I dont mention that in OP, which i should have). I am still amazed at the amount ppl are snap-calling here however - is he bluffing or ch/pushing draws or pushing lesser hands enough of the time to make this call +EV? Maybe thats something I need to determine for myself but Im still kinda surprised w/ how many stack off here...

Sorry if this is so very simple for some ppl to snap-call here, but im interested in deeper explanations cos Im always looking for ways to improve, so im not just gonna except 'duck says snap-call when c/r w/ tptk in 3bet pots, so thats ok'.

Im really interested in ranges of villian (inc. bluffs obv.) that we beat here...

For the poster that referred to bet size flop (sorry forgot ur name): I said Id normally bet 77 here (between 2/3 and 3/4 pot), but i bet 66 (between 1/2 pot and 2/3 pot) - I dont think bet size makes much difference except in inducing bluffs from opponents I have a good read on, which I dont have here...

Sorry for rant again, im just obv interested in good thought processes from better players than me. Thanks!

[Melchiades]

I'm not sure I think poker is quite as simple as, if we bet we must call. Or we shouldn't have 3-bet or bet flop in the first place.

The bet might have value if villain would check/call flop with medium pairs. It seems many have a plan set in stone before making any action, but with each action villains range changes.

That being said, I call.

[Huggy]

Snap call? what range do we put villian on? Surely villian isnt callinf a 3-bet outa pos with anything less than TT+,AQ+. Any1 agree? or am i well off?

[FionnMac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol @ the first two replies in this thread, from regular posters with >1.8k posts.

It's been said before, but when i bet here i actually WANT my opponent to shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Fiona Mac,

STFU.....

I said this bet is usually a draw implying I would call. I then said a fold is fine as long as you don't think it is the norm. Obviously BlackAmex had a gut feeling/timing tell here and went with it. I said that is fine as long as he doesn't make a habit of it.

I bet if duck said instafold you woulda quoted her since that seems to be the norm around these forums now (quoting respected posters and offering nothing yourself).

By the way, this is no way a shot at duck. I think she knows I deeply respect her game and opinions at the way she views poker. But it is starting to get a little ridiculous around these forums having someone like her/cts/Krantz/whitelime/blah blah write something and watch countless people just quote them and write nothing.

Also, Fiona if I recall, I believe you usually contribute minimal to nothing in the way of good advice ever. So again, STFU and go troll someone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. My name is not Fiona. I have a penis.

2. Even if duck/cts/krantz etc said fold here before i'd read the thread i would assume they're levelling and still think it's a snap call. But i do know what you mean, people seem to follow the line of a respected poster if a decision is close, but this hand is not close imo.

3. Obv i'm not a ground-breaking poster or anything, but i believe i am solid poster, posting my own hands and contributing to other people's threads, and almost all of my posts have been in the strat forums which is more you can say for most 2p2'ers.

4. I think you've over-reacted a little, but my bad if i didn't read read your post properly and apologies if you thought i made an attack on you, that wasn't the intention.

Peace,
Fionn

[NOSUP4U]

[ QUOTE ]
If Villain's tight enough to not make this a snapcall then you shouldn't 3-bet this preflop and/or check behind on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kinda sums it up for me. Like, I guess I just don't understand, if Villian's 3bet calling range is TT+ and AK, then we should be 3betting him with atc until that changes. I think the fundamental mistake most 'tag' players make is only 3betting for 'value' with hand they aren't going to get a lot of value out of, and not calling 3bets with a wider range in position.

I don't see how you fold AQ here. I run somewhere around the stats of this villian, and I call 3bets with SC's frequently and will shove any draw I flop. I also play AA and KK just like villian. So my point just goes back to, if villian's range is polarized to AA/KK/AK suited here, then you shouldn't 3bet him pf. And if it isn't, you should be snap calling here.

Mark

[JReezy]

feel great about calling here on that flop

[MATT111]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If Villain's tight enough to not make this a snapcall then you shouldn't 3-bet this preflop and/or check behind on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kinda sums it up for me. Like, I guess I just don't understand, if Villian's 3bet calling range is TT+ and AK, then we should be 3betting him with atc until that changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. So obviously wrong.