advice on flop, turn, river play?

[cowboy billy]

[ QUOTE ]
holy [censored]. what the hell are you doing on the flop? you got super lucky that retard SB decided to pump spades and miss. check/raising that flop is 100% horrible.


[/ QUOTE ]
I greatly disagree, this is a GOOD flop for our hand and we should be aggressive with it, bc our hand indeed is vulnerable, chances that we're ahead are BIGG, therefore, our equity is GOOD

c/raising flop is NOT mandatory, but DEF my preferred line of play

meekly calling a bet on the flop is MARGINAL at best, yes we have 5 outs, but we’re NOT drawing to the nuts so we should discount them a bit to a solid 4 outs, which means we’re NOT getting sufficient pot odds, but will probably be just ok with the implied odds we get, if we miss on the turn and are faced with another bet, we can’t continue

now, utg's cbet is standard and means nothing, sb calling this bet signals weakness to me, therefore I’d like to take initiative of the hand and will basically lead any turn at which point we’ll take the hand down ui often enough to make the play profitable, we deny utg the possibility of taking down the pot ui on the turn AND deny him (and sb) the possibility to take a free card to improve on the river

it’s EASY to say we don’t like our equity bc we think we’re up against a flush draw+overs AFTER sb 3-bet us, but when we c/r utg’s bet we don’t know that yet

AFTER utg called our c/raise and sb has 3-bet, I see not other option than to cap flop to try and move utg out

pokerbob mentioned that “there are better pots to steal”, I don’t have the intention to steal this pot, I believe we have the best hand and that this pot belongs to us, we just have to make sure nobody else steals it FROM US or that we hand it over to one of our opponents by not taking initiative

[StrictlyStrategy]

I usually bet this flop kind of hoping to get raised in an effort to get things HU.

[johnnylovescandy]

yo yo yo, you really dikt dis hand up in der, boyyyyyyy....

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
holy [censored]. what the hell are you doing on the flop? you got super lucky that retard SB decided to pump spades and miss. check/raising that flop is 100% horrible.


[/ QUOTE ]
I greatly disagree, this is a GOOD flop for our hand and we should be aggressive with it, bc our hand indeed is vulnerable, chances that we're ahead are BIGG, therefore, our equity is GOOD

c/raising flop is NOT mandatory, but DEF my preferred line of play

meekly calling a bet on the flop is MARGINAL at best, yes we have 5 outs, but we’re NOT drawing to the nuts so we should discount them a bit to a solid 4 outs, which means we’re NOT getting sufficient pot odds, but will probably be just ok with the implied odds we get, if we miss on the turn and are faced with another bet, we can’t continue

now, utg's cbet is standard and means nothing, sb calling this bet signals weakness to me, therefore I’d like to take initiative of the hand and will basically lead any turn at which point we’ll take the hand down ui often enough to make the play profitable, we deny utg the possibility of taking down the pot ui on the turn AND deny him (and sb) the possibility to take a free card to improve on the river

it’s EASY to say we don’t like our equity bc we think we’re up against a flush draw+overs AFTER sb 3-bet us, but when we c/r utg’s bet we don’t know that yet

AFTER utg called our c/raise and sb has 3-bet, I see not other option than to cap flop to try and move utg out

pokerbob mentioned that “there are better pots to steal”, I don’t have the intention to steal this pot, I believe we have the best hand and that this pot belongs to us, we just have to make sure nobody else steals it FROM US or that we hand it over to one of our opponents by not taking initiative

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. This is not a good flop for our hand. It is BAD. We have 2nd pair on a draw heavy board and someone raised preflop and their is a K on the board. we are very unlikely to improve here, but other hands may.

SB calling shows weakness? meaning what? he has absolutely nothing? the BEST possible situation for us is that the pfr has a hand like AJ that we have reverse dominated (or maybe a hand like JJ that he will fold), and SB has a spade draw. if SB does indeed have a spade draw, it is almost impossible for him to have one that doesn't also have 6 pair outs vs. our hand. If SB has exactly A8s, and the pfr has AJ, are only 44% to have the best hand by the river. SB is 47%. So, we are still getting money in BAD. (Even if the pfr folds and sb has A8s, we are only 53% to have the best hand by the river. Not exactly an edge worth pushing given that sb having A8s is the IDEAL situation. If SB has QTs and the pfr fold, now we are only 45% to have the best hand by the river.) It is much more likely that we don't have SB reverse dominated, and he has a hand like QTs or T9s, in which case his equity is now over 50%. Not to mention the fact that the pfr could EASILY have a king here and have use murdered, or a hand like QQ that he refuses to fold. so, even if we do have the best hand at the moment, we likely are not the favorite to win the hand. Going nuts on this flop is burning money. there is really no other way to say it.