Rate my and villain's play... - Page 2

Shean · #11 08-10-2007, 03:51 PM

All 3 of you are idiots:

Button is an idiot for continuing with 9-9 when there are two overcards on board, plus Hero and BB are betting like crazy, representing an overpair, if not a set.

BB is an idiot for not fearing AA, KK, JJ, or TT enough to slow down with his QQ.

You're an idiot for folding top two pair in this situation. What hand are you afraid of? No flush possibility, 8-9 is unlikely, though possible. Only thing you have to fear with top two pair is a set... which given the betting and the cards you hold, isn't likely. If one of your opponents has the case TT or JJ, more power to them and congrats on the pot. Otherwise, at least call Button's raise and BB's 3-bet on the river... pot is way to big to just fold it for 2 more bets.

Larry, Curly and Moe... all at the same table!

Johnny Drama · #12 08-10-2007, 03:58 PM

what limit is this?

Shean · #13 08-10-2007, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what limit is this?

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Excellent question JD... didn't even consider that. $3/$6 is a lot different than $6/$12 and could impact the answer...

Gap23Razor · #14 08-10-2007, 05:05 PM

have not looked at the results...but i would think i would have folded to the 3 bet on the turn

made straight or set of 4's or another JT pairing...

(now looking at the results)--what the hell were they thinkin? did you do anything to them to make them go off like that, like put something in their drinks? wow, just wow

Esso · #15 08-10-2007, 05:09 PM

Well, it looks like your read on button was wrong. Maybe BB had a better read and knew he liked to make hopeless plays like this?

I don't like BB's turn 3-bet. He has to know when you raise the turn that he is likely behind, most likely to JJ/TT/JT.

When you don't cap the turn, he should still know he is behind, but that you probably don't have TT or JJ.

So if he knows -

1) button is capable of this move,
2) it likely is a move given the board and action, and
3) you can fold a better hand -

then it's a good play. Recognize that BB just calling here would be really terrible, and it's hard for him to fold, so investing an extra BB in this huge pot even on a longshot isn't that bad.

That being said, this is giving him a lot of credit. Making this play would place him among the better limit holdem players in the world, and I doubt that guy is sitting at small stakes Stars games.

So in the end it's more likely he was just spewing and got lucky.

As for your river fold, it's a tough, tough spot. Given no flush or straight, and that sets are unlikely, and that the pot is huge, you should probably call. But I'm likely biased by knowing the results.

Just curious, who was BB? Who was button? I am interested if I recognize them and if my read on them is the same as yours.

Ricks · #16 08-10-2007, 05:09 PM

Seeing results:

ZOMG, you're getting 13:1 to call in a huge pot. How can you fold this?

Not seeing results:

I think that you played the hand well. I like the turn raise because it is pretty hard to put BB on a set even though hands such as AJ or AT are possibilities too. You correctly put him on an overpair and the raise has value as well as it is protecting your hand. I would have called the 2 on the river if I was last to act but I am not sure if I would when facing a possible cap from the now aggressive button, especially when considering your reads.

BB is clearly over-playing his hand.

BTN should have 3-bet pf. As he played, he should have folded the flop as well as the turn.

PokerBob · #17 08-10-2007, 07:12 PM

cap the turn, as there are only 2 possible combos of hands that beat you that make any sense. button looks like a [censored] with 98, so folding the river seems fine, but i don't think you are ever beat by the pfr.

EDIT: just read the results. BB is a retard, but has exactly what we think he has. button should be in a padded room.

fishbutt · #18 08-11-2007, 11:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River: (19.75 BB) 2 (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB 3-bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

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WTF Mate?

What hand exactly are you folding to? There's no potential flush. Straight(89) is very remote for the BB to have. You have top 2 pair, making JJ and TT unlikely. BB is not going to 3-Bet with 44. He's screaming out "HIGH POCKET PAIR!!". Only 3 hands that have you beat are JJ, TT or 98 are all very unlikely given your holdings and the preflop action. I think you're making a huge mistake to fold here on the river when you can't even put BB on a winning hand. Only player you have to fear is Button holding a low set, but as you said he's a fish.

I think you have to make a crying call here and hope nobody's got a set. Final pot was ~27 BB's => 13.5:1 pot odds => you have to show down the winner only 7.5% of the time to make this call correct. Just think...if you make 2BB/hr, you just wiped out 13.5 hours of profit in this one hand.

You're going to lose a lot of money anytime you hit top two-pair against a set with no flushes on board. That's just the way it goes. You cannot assume the worst and even if you do think you're beaten, folding a winner in such an enormous pot is a much bigger mistake than calling down.

HoneyBadger · #19 08-11-2007, 11:12 AM

It's slightly different. Button is likely to cap it, so I have to put in 3 more bets for a final pot of 28.75 bets; that's 9.6:1, which means I have to be good 9.5% of the time. Even though the button is a fish, he is raising the field after this action and surely must know one of us is calling him down. So he must have a hand, unless he is completely, utterly retarded. I read BB as a reasonable player, and he must also know this; furthermore, he must realize that I have at least a pair of kings, yet he doesn't seem to care: he still 3 bets. I just didn't think that almost 10% of the time I would be up against two loons. One of whom, as poker bob so nicely said, should probably be in a padded cell [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Atrium · #20 08-15-2007, 04:05 PM

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You cannot assume the worst and even if you do think you're beaten, folding a winner in such an enormous pot is a much bigger mistake than calling down.

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I couldn't agree more. In Small Stakes Hold'em they say one of the biggest mistakes (other than playing weak off-suit hands in EP) is folding when the pot large. "By calling you might loose a bet but by folding you loose (forfeit) the entire pot." I understand that if you had called after the reraise it might have been capped and you would have called 3 extra bets but I think the principal of this saying still applies.