I'm a 65/15

[Ribbo]

After busting this guy for like the third time...
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1352428
He went on some rant about how he is supposed to not play aces like that against me since "I'm a 65/15".
Obviously he was referring to PA hud, something I don't use or really care about using. (not like I use poker tracker omaha either even though I have that).
Seems to me far too many people right now are relying on stats to tell them things about opponents without actually watching how the guy plays at the table.
It's a forgotten art actually watching people play poker. I finished +$3500 for the session at 2/4 on Stars without the aid of any software programs, although some of the hands were hilarious.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351401
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351413
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351436 <-- comedy gold bad beat.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351364 <-- ZOMG a bluff
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351344 <-- oh man this was gold.

And now for the deep thinking hand where I bust out a min reraise bluff against an obviously better hand. Representing the aces, yo.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351297

But for the funniest hand of the night, which I didn't play, it HAD to be this one. Wish to goddammit I had [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1351280

[sc000t]

Hate to say it, but I agree 100% with what you said about players relying on PT too much. I bought PT and PAHUD awhile back and it was useful for NLHE when I would 6 table and couldn't really focus on all the players. But I thought then, as I do now, that people stop really paying attention to how opponents will play and just look at their stats and lump them into a certain catagory of poker playing style.

It's a forgotten art indeed, at least when it comes to online poker.

[iggymcfly]

I agree with this. I find that when I try using a HUD during play, it distracts me more than it helps and I make too many assumptions about late street play from the preflop action. The reads you get just paying attention to the hands and the players are a lot more valuable.

There are games like say LHE or NLHE tournaments where using a HUD is absolutely essential but I don't think it really applies as much for PLO. I'm sure there are people that have the stats customized properly and are used to using them that can get value out of it, but for me, I do way better just through my own reads.

[alavet]

oh i just can say that in a micro levels like PL10-50 HUD extremely helps to read 2+2 without losing EV [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

you usually have very simle decisions if his stats smth like

wpip/pfr/af
75/40/5
or maybe
55/5.4/1.2

[Aisthesis]

Ribs, do you plug in the stats on a player at all? I kind of go off and on for the reasons you mention: While I do think the stats can give some kind of picture (I also make a player note on win-/loss-rate, although that's highly inaccurate, but I figure it also gives SOME idea of whether we're dealing with a winner or loser).

Anyhow, that's a point I've been wondering about, as opening game-time window, plugging in the players, etc., does distract from looking at the way they actually play their hands--which imo, at least if you can remember it, is much more important than the stats.

The memory thing is also a question mark, because the same guy may well play significantly different now than he did 6 months ago...

[Nitilism]

[ QUOTE ]
Hate to say it, but I agree 100% with what you said about players relying on PT too much. I bought PT and PAHUD awhile back and it was useful for NLHE when I would 6 table and couldn't really focus on all the players. But I thought then, as I do now, that people stop really paying attention to how opponents will play and just look at their stats and lump them into a certain catagory of poker playing style.

It's a forgotten art indeed, at least when it comes to online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's internet poker, not live poker, and there are no reliable tells. All you have is ranges and betting patterns. None of you have infallible memories, but PAHUD does. Moreoever, all of your memories are subject to bias, and when you are tilty or when some one is running hot, you are going to get the wrong impression of that player. PAHUD will not.

Should you rely solely on PAHUD, not if you can help it. And there are obvious drawbacks, such as when you rely on it solely, you'll probably miss that some else is titling. Also, PAHUD may lose value as the number of players decreases, particularly in PLO.

You have to pay attention to the tables, PAHUD can't make up for that, but I promise that there will simple stat situations several times every 100 hands...

[jipster]

well HUD 1.18 isnt bringing up stats on my site anyways!

to add my bit i've been usinh HUD for about 3 months now and have found it useful in certain situations; HOWEVER:

my own notes and 'reads' seem to be more valuable (i.e. seeing your opponent is on tilt etc)

With a large player base its relatively easy for a few players to slip past the radar when your multitabling and hud does help you; and its so inexpensive one hand won pays for itself!

OP ---> just started reading your blog, love it

[RoundTower]

I agree with the guy who said you should probably get a HUD that just shows mucked hands. I don't use any HUD but will probably look into this.

[jii]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the guy who said you should probably get a HUD that just shows mucked hands. I don't use any HUD but will probably look into this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, hud shows what you configure it to show. No stats at all if you prefer.

[Aisthesis]

I was thinking about this last night a bit and came to the following conclusion: The stats are at least useful.

Moreover, I almost never post voluntarily when I sit down, so I have a few hands to fill in the game time window before playing a hand. Ok, sure, I could be observing more during that time, but it's just a few hands by the time I'm done--and if you REALLY want to get serious about it, you could open up the table while waiting for a seat and observe during that time. That seems a bit much, and I don't do it. I'm also much more "on" with observations while I'm actually playing at the table, even if I'm not in the hand at the moment.

Also, as the game is playing out, it's really easy to get a quick stat on just one player entering the game without distracting from observations.

So, anyhow, I agree with Ribs that the most important thing is to see things like: This guy bet the flop passively on the flop with top set--or with a very weak draw. Or, he had a monster draw and check-called. And nothing you do should cause you to miss those observations. But I think you can call up some of the basics and still catch those things if you stay alert and focussed.

I'll also add that what I've sometimes found really bad: I'm not super interested in the game (generally = not catching decent hands) and then start browing the forum and maybe even posting. Then I catch a hand finally and have to play it in a vacuum and while really thinking about something else.

Unless you have a mind capable of focussing on more things at once than I can, I think it's a good idea to check out the forum before or after a session but not during!!