Pavel Tsatsouline?

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His best work is Super Joints, imo. A good joint mobility program is the best way to feel like a million bucks.

The dragondoor forum used to be cool years ago, but sucks now. Steve Maxwell, Scott Sonnon, and Steve Cotter (all doing their own thing now) used to post there.

Some of the posters left and went to www.irongarmx.net because they got sick of the cult like forum, and some thought Pavel was a fraud and a plagiarist. A fraud because of past credentials, not because he wrote about things he knew nothing about. All the books I've read from him are good, but I'd stay away from the pavelizer. His stuff is way overpriced and full of ads, but blame that on the publisher John DuCane, not Pavel.

The Joint and Stretching stuff is priceless.

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I don't agree that the forum was cult-like at all. Very, very far from it. I read it for years, and saw very extensive talk of all kinds of exercise and physical development, from martial arts to gymnastics to powerlifting to clubbells to kettlebells to jumpstretch-type bands to gripper work to "found objects" type of lifting ... there was everything on that board, and enthusiastic support of cross-training from pretty much everyone.

I do find the board dull now, because Mike and the two Steves don't appear anymore. Didn't know Steve Cotter had gone, I really love that guy's stuff. His first two DVD's were amazing, and he's a very bright guy, with an open mind and an interesting background, and a very good writer.

Regarding claims of fraud or plagiarism, I have seen some questioning Pavel's sports accreditation from the Soviets, but I haven't read anything to suggest there's any basis in the fraud claims. And the plagiarism claims seem outright odd, because they seem founded on people's inability to read the Russian sports research Pavel discusses in the first place, on the one hand, and seem to expect him not to discuss it on the other! Which way do they want it? Puts him in a pretty absurd quandary where both discussing and not discussing it get claimed as "damning." I'm writing this stuff off to the kind of snarky competitiveness that accretes to this industry.

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After that, Beyond Bodybuilding is a very good book with lots of protocols, exercises, and good emphasis on proper form.



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I've read elsewhere beyond bodybuilding maybe his finest book. Is it complete or does it require reading naked warrior/ power to the people?

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You don't need NW or PTP, and BB can easily stand on its own. NW especially though goes into greater detail on tension techniques, as I recall, and those are very useful and a great foundation for everything else you do, from striking to judo throws to lifting. Beyond Bodybuilding is especially good on protocols and tips on form, and is kind of encyclopedia-like.

NW is so expensive for how tiny it is though that I wouldn't be surprised if people get pissed off at it. Definitely buy it online and save yourself 15 bucks or so. I'd be surprised if anyone felt BB was not worth every penny.

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I didn't thing it was very cult like either, but some got sick of the comrade bull.

Cotter was the one who went off on irongarmx posting all the fraud stuff on Pavel. He found out a lot of things on a trip to Russia for a GS competition and was extremely angry for a long while. He later apologized about the way he acted, but took nothing back. I think Cotter had the thread deleted, but there was a lot of good stuff in it. The way things were stated, it was very hard to believe Pavel was not a fraud.

Jeff Martone, who did the juggling dvds for dragondoor, left because Pavel ordered him to remove kettlebells in Jeff's own home, because they weren't from dragondoor. He was a good poster too.

All of these guys are classy and don't think very much of Pavel or DuCane.

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Wow, interesting. I'm curious as to exactly what might be fraudulent. If Cotter is saying it, I give it more credence, because he seemed like a very loyal and level-headed guy.

I remember reading that Martone said Pavel didn't want him selling competitor's kettlebells, which sounded fair. Not having any in his own home sounds so wacky I'm not sure I believe it. Who would ever know, anyway?

At any rate, I do think Pavel's strength-based material is very good, regardless of the authenticity of any parts of his past. He was clearly good enough to get the respect and virtual discipleship of some extremely seasoned and accomplished athletes and fitness professionals for many years. That attests to his abilities clearly enough.

As I noted about his food/nutrition forum, though, I'm not a fan, and I haven't seen any of his stretching stuff.

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Longbody, what do you think of Sonnon's yoga/flexibility stuff? Any recommendations?

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I have his Zdorovye 5 tape series from years ago which is very good and exhaustive. Zdorovye is like the Slavic version of yoga or qigong. Kind of like joint mobility on steroids, a lot of movement and postural stuff. Also has a tape for breathing and running. I don't think they sell it anymore though, and I have no idea about what they're offering now, but all the stuff in the Zdorovye series is probably interspersed throughout their offerings.
I don't really use anything from the tapes anyway.
His book Bodyflow was interesting, but I didn't really get much from it. Its all about fear-reactivity and how fear can impede our natural movement. We're supposed to get out of the way of our own genius, talent and abundance. Kind of out there.

Steve Maxwell's Joint Mobility dvd is a simple follow along routine that he put together with a lot of stuff from Pavel and Sonnon with some exercises of his own. That is a top shelf production and something that I use almost everyday.
Sonnon has way too many products out for me to even care anymore, although some of it is supposed to be good from what I hear.

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Thanks for the feedback. I've wanted some of Sonnon's clubbells for a long time, and for the mobility aspects of using them through a full range of motion more than for strength. My back is feeling really stiff from being at the office so much these days, and I'm worried I might be losing some of my range of motion in the shoulders. I'll read up on Maxwell's DVD.

Some of that Sonnon stuff does look kind of spooky, and Sonnon's advertising stuff makes it look spookier still, so I'm wary about his yoga stuff, but still curious what there might be that doesn't go all goofy.

[jqmaverick]

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One last question about beyond bodybuilding before I buy it.
Is the book based around kettlebell training? I do not have any access to kettlebells.

Thanks

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No, kettlebells play a pretty small part; not enough to matter on the decision whether to buy or skip it. Mostly barbell stuff, discussion of the merits of different training protocols. Not really a kettlebell book at all.

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Unlike solid cast iron kettlebells, it is pretty easy to make a makeshift clubbell. I met up with a local CST guy or whatever they're called and he had a bunch of clubbells and a bunch of makeshift whiffle bat (skinny and the big red ones filled with sand or something) clubs and they work pretty much the same. Might want to try some of them before spending the big bucks, especially if you're using them just for mobility.