NL50 77 in 3 bet pot.

JROK777 · #1 08-10-2007, 04:38 AM

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $49.50
UTG+1: $48.45
Hero: $93.25
Button: $62.95
SB: $48.75
BB: $51.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, Button raises to $6.5, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($19.75, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $10, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($39.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($39.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero ???

Is the flop call standard here? Then when villian checks the turn, should we fire? If so, for how much? As played, do we call the river? Comment on anything you'de like.

bozzer · #2 08-10-2007, 04:57 AM

i think your thinking is quite far out of line here readless.

you should probably fold preflop readless, if you think you are ahead pf you should probably raise that flop given weak looking cbet (you want to charge overcards).

as played if you think you are ahead on the flop the action and board came down as well as you could hope so you have to call on the end.

kongs · #3 08-10-2007, 05:03 AM

This hand is so tough to continue on without a read. I think you see an overpair a lot, and the times you don't AK and AQs are the next likely options so either way this isn't looking good for you.

I personally put the villian on QQ just looking to get weak value bets in, checking on the turn in hopes you bluff some chips.

Then again I could be completely wrong.

JROK777 · #4 08-10-2007, 05:11 AM

PF the call is standard because we are 3 way and closing the action(bigger implied odds). Villians weak flop bet is suspicious. I guess Hero has been watching too many high-limit NL ring games...

Chomp · #5 08-10-2007, 05:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PF the call is standard because we are 3 way and closing the action(bigger implied odds)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think you could conceivably argue that a preflop call is ok, but I really think it is stretching it to say that it is "standard".

I don't think that 77 unimporived wins this post very often - and if it does it is unlikely that the pot is going to get much fatter before SD. And we are only getting set odds if we stack one of villains or half-stack both of them - I think we need to make maybe another $45 or something post to get the odds for set-mining. That's possible but optimistic IMO.

Just opinion as I suck.

DemonOfTheFall · #6 08-10-2007, 06:47 AM

Preflop you're calling $4.75 getting 8:1 to hit a set. You need to win ~$38 every time to make this call break even. There's already a ~$15 overlay in the pot giving you even better odds. A call seems pretty standard here. Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I think preflop 3-bettor's range is tight enough (JJ-AA,AK+) to give you implied odds. BB has a full stack (barring reads) so he's unlikely to be in there with complete garbage, giving you a chance to stack him or at least extract one bet.There's also the possibility the button doesn't c-bet a scary board, occasionally letting you see a turn card.

Once you get to the flop, there's 16 combos of AK as compared to 24 combos of JJ-AA. You have to weight the probability of him having overpairs much higher than UI AK. You're never seeing a showdown OOP without your stack going in if youre behind and you don't win any more if you're ahead (rarely).

mvdgaag · #7 08-10-2007, 06:52 AM

He has an overpair here almost always. 3bet preflop, check turn for pot control bet river = big pocketpair...

It might be AK sometimes, realising he can't win without betting the river and you might throw away an 8 or failed draw.

I fold this flop unless i've seen him 3betting light from the button. If you were going to call the flop you weren't going to do it to fold if you had to put in one more 2/3 pot bet, unless you catch another 7, because then it's better to just fold it there IMO.

bozzer · #8 08-10-2007, 07:28 AM

sorry my comments are out, i thought it was HU. i still fold pf though. Demon you need to make 11.7 * $4.75 when you hit a set (accounts for chance of losing when you hit a set).

DemonOfTheFall · #9 08-10-2007, 07:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
sorry my comments are out, i thought it was HU. i still fold pf though. Demon you need to make 11.7 * $4.75 when you hit a set (accounts for chance of losing when you hit a set).

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you arrive at 11.7? I'd like to know the maths behind it if you have the time/inclination to explain?

Daniel LeClaire · #10 08-10-2007, 10:22 AM

I prefer to fold this preflop. BB cold calling improves your pot odds but it's going to be difficult to extract OOP against the BU if you hit.

I would prefer just to lead this flop if I think I'm ahead. True, you miss out on a possible c-bet but it makes the hand easier to play. You said his c-bet was weak, but he might be scared of the trip 9s or just be milking you. A lot of guys don't make proper bet sizes.

The river seems like a clear fold. Sometimes this is a bluff but, readless, I think you are beat here the majority of the time. Looks like a straight value bet.