Guy flips up opponents cards (Conversation with Dealer)

[Diana Ross Fan]

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And then, If the dealer looks at you when you win a big pot & you don't tip...

Look at him and say, "Do you have a question?"

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Awesome

[AKQJ10]

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Actually, this seems like a pretty good reason. Are you going to call it cheating?

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No. I'm just going to call it antisocial behavior that's considered out of bounds among poker players and will get you thrown out of the casino faster than showing your next 20 hands to your neighbor and turbomucking them.

Again, I'm as big a fan of SOSA as anyone else on here. I wish that dealers would enforce it better instead of this, "I didn't hear the request," nonsense. (In fairness, I've never dealt and I know they have many other things to focus on while running the game.)

But the only way I can see you possibly ever getting away with touching the mucked cards would be if you saw the guy intentionally mucking quickly and you could stick out your hand to stop them without reaching across the table (e.g., in the 1-seat). Then if you immediately released the cards and let the dealer do her job, you might get away with it. I doubt it, but if everyone knew the opponent was being a jerk to avoid SOSA, maybe so.

Ordinarily, no matter how right your cause, touching mucked cards is more -EV than foregoing the information. Just ask the dealer to see, then tell the floor away from the table what's going on and let them enforce it if the dealer won't.

[numbnuts007]

I hate this kind of crap but i've kind of gotten used to it. I recently moved from san diego to los angeles and the poker etiquette here is ridiculous. The people here are animals. No respect for anyone else at the table. They'll grab at your cards, shoot angles, even grab at your chips sometimes, like if you're slow to post your blind. Yesterday one guy was even stacking the chips of the person next to him because a big pot was overflowing into his part of the table. Animals! There was a time when i'm sure people were killed for less than that. Maybe we should bring those times back.

[AngusThermopyle]

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The people here are animals.
....Animals!

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Do they put you on monkey tilt?

[ShaneP]

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It's kind of interesting this thread is going on at the same time in Home poker

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That situation is completely different. In the Home Poker thread, action was not complete when the guy not in the hand flipped over someone else's cards... Here, action was complete and the dealer would have shown the cards if he was asked.

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The point was that the guy in that case probably thought the action was over (or made another ill-informed decision). I know in *this* case action was over, it didn't matter, etc...

But it just opens up a huge can of worms. What if someone doesn't realize something and decides to flip cards over? or someone sees someone else doing it, thinks it's cool, and doesn't quite understand all the rules? Or mishears or hears just part of the player's words. Say something like 'I think I might have to fold here', someone hears fold, thinks the hand is over, and flips the guys hand over. Sure, original player shares some of the blame, but it's a situation made a lot worse by the grabbing player.

Or (I can't remember how the rulings have went, so maybe this isn't an issue), but I've heard about hands being pushed forward, and then the player realizing he had a winning hand or a split pot. Again, it might depend on the venue (and stakes?) whether someone can grab their hand there and table it but if that's allowed, the grabbing player took something away from the original player.

I agree, no harm in the original case described above. But there is room for harm if people are allowed to grab other's cards, chips, whatever. I wouldn't like that just because of the problems that might arise if we start letting players turn other's cards over--there's no advantage for players to do that, and reasons for them not to be able to.

[rbenuck4]

OK, it seems that almost everyone agrees that a player should not touch the cards in the muck. Now, how do I deal with the dealer's "rude" comment in an appropriate manner? Do I say something at the table (calmly of course) or do I just get up and talk to the floor. Or, as youtalkfunny says, should I quit being such a god damn nit.

[pfapfap]

Eh, I'd let this one go. I've been in enough confrontations in my life that resulted from some sort of misunderstanding, I don't need to send out an open invitation for more. Usually rude people are that way for a reason. If someone's consistently rude, nothing I say or do will change it, so why get involved? On the other hand, usually I've just caught someone at a bad time or on a bad day or just at a particular nanosecond where synapses didn't fire properly and things didn't come out as intended. I know I've certainly been indavertently rude more than a few times in my years.

Yeah, dealer was rude, based on your particular view of how it went down, but considering it as an isolated event, I don't think it's anything to stress over. To do anything but shrug and move along is -EV.

Now... had it been my table, I'd have been very clear that ain't nobody flipping over no cards 'cept me and the intended recipients. I run a casual friendly game, but I get way serious way quickly if someone touches the stub or muck. Those are mine... MINE!

[IgorSmiles]

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I agree totally with youtalkfunny - this forum is out-of-control nitty

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what are you guys talking about? He "gave a confused look" and the dealer instantly got an attitude.