Some Stuff About PUA (very long)

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
I've only read about half the thread and skimmed the bitchy hiss fight between Dids and Cardo. Getting back to PUA...

I think the most valuable thing that PUA tries to teach men is that the majority of guys are completely, 100% wrong about the correct way to attract women. (To get laid, to get a GF, wife, or just be liked by women, whatever it is.) Most guys arrive at adulthood with a ton of completely busted ideas about how to interact with women and as a result, they fail miserably. Then, stung by their failures, they give up and quit trying.

Some of the incorrect assumptions are that you should just "be yourself," that the right relationship will "just happen," etc. I am pretty sure that Hollywood is responsible for these persistent lies.

One of the other incorrect assumptions is that a guy should not "clean up his act," i.e, sanitize his speech and behavior when he meets a girl. He does not admire her body, make innuendos, or do anything else to indicate he is sexually attracted to the woman, for fear she will be offended and reject him. Instead he makes innocent small talk and then tries to work up the courage to nervously ask for her phone number. Then he doesn't understand when she doesn't return his phone calls.

But these assumptions are all exactly wrong. The PUA knows that he MUST present himself as a sexual person who is sexually attracted to the woman. He knows that she likes sex as much as he does, but she wants to have sex with someone she is very attracted to, not just any schlub. He knows to make it clear that he is interested in her but not particularly concerned as to whether she is interested or not. He openly flirts, makes innuendos, checks her out, talks about sex and sexual things and is not worried if she will be offended. He gives her the chance to spend more time with him, but not an open-ended invitation, etc. He is not a lapdog begging for a table scrap, but someone who likes her and will give her a chance to like him back.

Another benefit of the PUA info is to stress the importance of practice, i.e., approaching a lot of different women. Instead of locking in on one woman and building her up to be the goddess/muse/soulmate/meaning of life, he approaches the women he finds attractive and tries to be attractive to them. He knows he will be rejected most of the time, but that he will improve with practice and not fail all of the time, etc.

Finally, the PUA stuff teaches you that a woman will try to control/dominate the man, but does not actually want to succeed, for the most part. She is trying to find the most attractive man, i.e., one that is confident enough not to simply do whatever she wants, but to do what HE wants (as LFS' great post says). Once he establishes that he is not necessarily just going to bend to her will, she knows he is a confident man, the kind she would like to be with.

All of this information was very helpful to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post DrewDevil.

[traz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be interesting to have the slightest hint of female perspective on any of this stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Women have no idea what they're talking about for the most part. In fact, a large chunk of the time, listening to women is what gets guys in trouble to start with.

[highhustla]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be interesting to have the slightest hint of female perspective on any of this stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is likely where you've gone wrong in the first place.

Girls don't necessarily operate on logic; you can't believe them when they say "what they want." Actions speak louder than words, and they HAVE spoken, w/ their asses.

I've never had a girl disagree with me about PUA virtues (I wouldn't mention the acronyms though [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

[ThaHero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bashing you. But somehow on this board it seems that PUA=bad and manipulative

[/ QUOTE ]
I have a hard time getting past the actual "Pick-Up Artist" part and still taking it seriously. I am aware it is more than just that, but maybe a new term is in order?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a large part of it. Let's be honest, 10 years ago(or hell, in the 80's or something), if someone said they were a "pick-up artist" you'd automatically conjure up someone who is a player.

Now there are many in the PUA community that are exactly that. They just pick up women, screw em, and leave. But there are some that we'd describe as PUAs that are married, don't cheat, have a family, etc. Are they picking up women? Not anymore. They transcended, but they still used PUA tactics to get where they currently are.

Like quids said, it's certainly a nice jumping off point, being PUA, but it shouldn't be where one stops. But to say all concepts(or most concepts) involved in PUA is wrong- well that statement is wrong to me. The core of it is showing you are unique and interesting, which most people are if they could just know how to convey it to someone. Some people just need work on their social skills, and that shouldn't carry a stigma. Whether they're banging girls or not. Many of us probably ran through plenty of skanks in college(or at least tried to) while drunk. Was it wrong?

What I'm basically saying is, many people hear the term PUA and automatically they get a preconceived notion in their head of what that is. It automatically sounds offensive and negative to anyone that likes the female gender and respects them. I don't know how the term came about, but I don't think that definition hold over all men who fall under that community or listen to and try to use these beliefs or techniques.

Also, I do feel it's weird to pay thousands for this stuff. To me, it seems a bit of introspection and a few books and motivation would lead one on the right path after being introduced to the core concepts, many of which you can find out for free. To each his own though.

[ThaHero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be interesting to have the slightest hint of female perspective on any of this stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is likely where you've gone wrong in the first place.

Girls don't necessarily operate on logic; you can't believe them when they say "what they want." Actions speak louder than words, and they HAVE spoken, w/ their asses.

I've never had a girl disagree with me about PUA virtues (I wouldn't mention the acronyms though [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's so true. For every woman that says she wants a "nice guy", afterwards there are at least 3 [censored] she's dated for everytime she says it. I was a "nice guy" for a long time and tried dating many chicks and it really got me nowhere. The only time I had success was when it was with a chick I either didn't like or liked only a little bit to the point where I didn't much care what happened. Women don't know what they want, they just say stuff because it sounds good, or out of frustration.

[highhustla]

My theory is that, when they tell "what they want," they list off all the qualities lacking in the people they actually tend to be attracted to. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Dids]

I'd like it noted that my ruining of this thread was way better than the current misogyny that's ruining it worse.

[highhustla]

Dids I am disappointed. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

If you think it's misogyny, then you REALLY don't understand.

I love women for what they actually are, which is NOT some up-on-a-pedestal fairytale BS--kinda like how what WE actually are is not some gay-ass John Cusack BS.

But even if this were misogyny, you are way wrong about the thread.

[highhustla]

One last comment on this trainwreck, although it has been alluded to: standard female game is more deceptive and manipulative than standard PUA game. If you don't realize this you are naive as [censored].

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Dids I am disappointed. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

If you think it's misogyny, then you REALLY don't understand.

I love women for what they actually are, which is NOT some up-on-a-pedestal fairytale BS--kinda like how what WE actually are is not some gay-ass John Cusack BS.

But even if this were misogyny, you are way wrong about the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

All the women I know best and love most - my mother, my grandmother, and my sister - are nothing like this.

My sister's our generation (24), slim, pretty, and educated.
Most well-adjusted person I've ever known in my life. She dates guys that are her friends first, and doesn't sleep with them until she's dating them. If she doesn't like how she's treated she gives the guy a chance or two, and if he doesn't shape up she walks. Her current BF is a sweet, sappy Greek stage actor who's one of the nicest guys I've ever met, and they're pretty retarded for each other. You tried to pull any of this 'hand' [censored] on her, she'd laugh in your face.

How does she fit into this nonsense about what 'women,' the singular unit, are, and what they want?