$5NL 6-Max, thin river call w/ middle overpair on drawy board

Wooden Ta Sheng · #1 08-09-2007, 07:25 PM

Villian, from what I've seen has played a decent TAG game, being aggressive in the right spots and not getting too involved in probable bad ones. This is the second JJ hand we've been involved in, the other him winning with 2p KQs when I bet the river after he checked on another drawy board. At this point, I can't see folding to this blocking bet.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($14.55)
Button ($2.90)
SB ($2.74)
BB ($29.93)
UTG ($4.85)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.2, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.4, Hero calls $0.20.

Flop: ($0.82) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.2, BB calls $0.20.

Turn: ($1.22) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1.22) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $0.3, Hero calls $0.30.

Your thoughts.

anthb7210p · #2 08-09-2007, 07:30 PM

bet more on flop, .6 or .7
Your not scaring off anyone with that donkbet
If he just calls and check the turn i'd prolly fire another 2/3pot, if he calls that u can probably put him on a draw and valuebet 1/2 pot the river
Thats what I would do

hihixD · #3 08-09-2007, 07:39 PM

I would've bet more on the flop. The b/c by him suggest that he didn't hit top pair, but that your bet didn't scare him out the hand completely. His pre-flop betting pattern suggests a decent starting hand, so I doubt he'd call if he hit a hand like AK or KQ with your weak bet.

After that call of his on the flop - I would have bet hard at the turn, not scared of the K any more and the 8 couldn't have helped much.

Wooden Ta Sheng · #4 08-09-2007, 07:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would've bet more on the flop. The b/c by him suggest that he didn't hit top pair, but that your bet didn't scare him out the hand completely. His pre-flop betting pattern suggests a decent starting hand, so I doubt he'd call if he hit a hand like AK or KQ with your weak bet.

After that call of his on the flop - I would have bet hard at the turn, not scared of the K any more and the 8 couldn't have helped much.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with betting more on the flop is you're out of position, you lose more when you're behind and you really don't gain that much info if you have to fold to a raise (which could sometimes be a bluff).

anthb7210p · #5 08-09-2007, 07:52 PM

we're in position here

Pants Optional · #6 08-09-2007, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would've bet more on the flop. The b/c by him suggest that he didn't hit top pair, but that your bet didn't scare him out the hand completely. His pre-flop betting pattern suggests a decent starting hand, so I doubt he'd call if he hit a hand like AK or KQ with your weak bet.

After that call of his on the flop - I would have bet hard at the turn, not scared of the K any more and the 8 couldn't have helped much.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with betting more on the flop is you're out of position, you lose more when you're behind and you really don't gain that much info if you have to fold to a raise (which could sometimes be a bluff).

[/ QUOTE ]

while becoming very exploitable with being raised off hands (which i do very often to those donkbets) and giving odds to let them draw and being IN position, not out, which makes me wonder how the f you could get that wrong

Wooden Ta Sheng · #7 08-09-2007, 11:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would've bet more on the flop. The b/c by him suggest that he didn't hit top pair, but that your bet didn't scare him out the hand completely. His pre-flop betting pattern suggests a decent starting hand, so I doubt he'd call if he hit a hand like AK or KQ with your weak bet.

After that call of his on the flop - I would have bet hard at the turn, not scared of the K any more and the 8 couldn't have helped much.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with betting more on the flop is you're out of position, you lose more when you're behind and you really don't gain that much info if you have to fold to a raise (which could sometimes be a bluff).

[/ QUOTE ]

while becoming very exploitable with being raised off hands (which i do very often to those donkbets) and giving odds to let them draw and being IN position, not out, which makes me wonder how the f you could get that wrong

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Sorry, I thought villain was on the button, my bad.

Mr_Pathetic · #8 08-10-2007, 12:22 AM

Well the flop bet does give draw odds, players like me will call it with ATC cause it is so small in attempt to take away at a later street which is what I think villain decided to do here. Problem is he did a poor job by betting small on the river on a card that probably did not help him unless it made him a pair. Being that we do not have much info on this villains range given the action of the hand, I like the get to showdown cheaply line.

LegendLength · #9 08-10-2007, 01:19 AM

Raise flop to .70, raise turn to 1.50 and check / call river.

Wooden Ta Sheng · #10 08-10-2007, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well the flop bet does give draw odds, players like me will call it with ATC cause it is so small in attempt to take away at a later street which is what I think villain decided to do here. Problem is he did a poor job by betting small on the river on a card that probably did not help him unless it made him a pair. Being that we do not have much info on this villains range given the action of the hand, I like the get to showdown cheaply line.

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This is why I checked behind on the turn. Also, one of the reason I bet small on the flop is because of villain's mini-raise preflop. I can definately see him do this with a hand like K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (although the latter is less likely from a TAG) out of position.