book reading order

[magx]

any more comments about TOP and NLTAP? = which one i should read first ?
I decided to master cash games and then move on to tournaments and sng's. i need to have answer to the TOP/NLTAP question and then ill post my new order(so people can tell me why im doing it wrong again hehe).

[newb]

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I would always start with TOP.


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Sorry but I can't agree with this. If the OP is planning on playing limit then fair enough but applying some of the concepts from TOP into no limit could be a disaster.

I'm certainly not suggesting that TOP shouldn't be read. I just feel that one should get a decent understanding of NL before reading the book. That way he will be able to work out for himself what applies in NL and what doesn't.

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What concepts do you refer to?

I have TOP here before me, and all the 25 chapters seem relevant to either limit or no limit.

Your main concern could be chapter ten, the free card , but in that same chapter the importance of defending your made hands, and not giving a free card, is stressed.

Obviously in limit the price of a bet doubles on the turn and river, so you can raise on the flop for a free card when in position.
Applying this concept is quite useless, even dangerous one might say in no limit, but I think OP can make this destinction quite easy.

Apart from this concept, I really don´t see wich other concepts are limit specific.

All the poker books, imho, are variations on TOP.
To understand those better I think any student is best served studying TOP first.

[newb]

[ QUOTE ]
any more comments about TOP and NLTAP? = which one i should read first ?
I decided to master cash games and then move on to tournaments and sng's. i need to have answer to the TOP/NLTAP question and then ill post my new order(so people can tell me why im doing it wrong again hehe).

[/ QUOTE ]

NLTAP is a book specificly about NLHE. TOP covers the fundamentals of poker as a whole.

It is the book where, the fundamental theorem of poker, is presented for the first time. This theorem forms the core for much of the concepts expressed in NLTAP.


It is not the easiest read, but if you want to understand other poker books better I think you should definitely start with TOP.

Here is my idea of an ideal list:

1) TOP
2) Odds and Probabilities book
3) GSIH
4) NLTAP
5) PNLH

Then, once you´re well versed in the theory and have sound fundamentals you can read the following books to get some different takes on the game:

LGB
The Largay book

The HOH series is great for tournaments, but vol. 1 can be used for cash games too.

[No Fizzle]

OK all: We can quibble about order but if we are here to help we should at least read what OP wants.

He is not playing tournaments right now, so no need to read the tournament books.

Getting started in hold 'em ABSOLUTELY needs to be first, as he has never played before.

OP, read that one and maybe post your question again, with a smaller list, and what exactly you are looking for. Good luck.

[magx]

ok i pretty much decided what im going to do: first im going to master cash games and then move to tournament and then sng's(or is it better to go sng's and then tounaments ?). so my order is going to be:
1. Getting Started in Holdem by Ed Miller
2. Little Green Book, by Gordon
3.No-Limit Texas Hold'em: A Complete Course , by Angel Largay's
4.Harington On Hold Em vol 1(+making move from vol 2)
5.Professional No-Limit Hold 'em: Volume I by Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta, and Ed Miller
6.Texas Holdem Odds and Probabilities by Hilger
7.Theory of Poker, by David Sklansky
8.No Limit Hold Em: Theory and Practice
9.Harrington on Hold Em vol 2
10.Harrington on Hold Em vol 3
11.Full Tilt Strategy Guide
12.Sit 'n Go Strategy by Collin Moshman

my only thing i dont know what to do about is should i read TOP befor NLTAP or NLTAP befor TOP ?
the second thing im not sure about is should i read Texas Holdem Odds and Probabilities befor both TOP and NLTAP or after them ?
i think this is the most efficiant way and ill be happy to explain if someone dont understand why

[magx]

ohh and another question i wanted to ask:
when i read Getting Started in Holdem, Texas Holdem Odds and Probabilities and more books that got limit and no limit sections - should i read the the limit sections too even though i dont play limit holdem at all ??

thx

[Gelford]

Hehe ... you'll be fine ... just don't forget to play, and read whatever you feel like, poker should be fun too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[iwannawon]

i haven't read half of these so maybe i'm not the best judge but i did read hoh and phil's book and some other 'beginner' books before i read TOP. i really, really wish i had read it sooner. it's not all related to holdem or often only limit when it is but the concepts aren't difficult to follow. probably true to read nltap next to help clear some of that up but some of the concepts i haven't seen in any other book and i think they're very important. might consider condensing your list a bit --choose one good intro book before top, and then get to pnl since you want to focus on cash games. you can go back and fill in some holes with the other books later. i wouldn't let some of these hold you up from reading others/playing first. that's alot of reading. as the other post says, don't forget to save time to play. although maybe something like the poker mindset would be good to round it out. or read em and reap or caro if you want to play live.

[dubiousdrift]

In the end, you'll read these books in precisely the order that you want to, but let me offer some of my own experiences that may be useful to you as you decide. I strongly prefer cash games to tournaments and tend to play more live home games and some online. There is not a good selection of casinos near me - the nearest is about 1.5 hours away and I have a tendency to play too tired and late online which has eaten up the small amount of money I've put online. I'm hesitant to put more money online and am likely to wait until more of the legal issues shake out. Basically, I'm a rank amateur and student of the game - but I do like to read.

I've not read GSIH, but I won't argue that it is probably a very fair choice if you haven't played much before now. From there, it probably depends on how you best learn. Do you learn best Top Down, by drinking in the big picture, understanding the whole, the theory, then diving into practical application of tactical practices? (this is me) Or do you learn bottom up. Perform each move or task, note the effects and try something new and different each day until you reach that eureka moment where is all just dawns on you? (this is not me)

I would encourage you to put TOP much earlier in the lineup - right behind GSIH if you can be persuaded to do so - especially if you are a top down learner. If you are a bottom up learner, your little green book might be a good selection. I read a couple of books before TOP, but none of them are worth mentioning and TOP really opened my eyes and mind to poker. I like little green book well enough, but there are better texts for the beginner.

From there, you should buy a copy of Poker Tracker and play a lot. Play with the mind of learning to put into practice the concepts that you've read about. Study your hand histories to figure out if what you did was correct, or if there were other ways of playing a hand to either a) save your stack or b) extract more money from your opponent.

Heres the thing, if you read drastically more than you play, you will sit down and try apply too much of what you have learned too quickly. Your game will suffer, you will get frustrated (it's easy enough to get frustrated by other players, why frustrate yourself?) and most importantly, you won't be able to diagnose what is wrong with your game. Take your time. Start tight and simple. Learn a little, then try it out in your game. See how it works, when it works, when it can't possibly work, adopt it into *your* game, then learn something new.

From there, let your game decide which book you should read next. I've not read the HOH books yet (one of the four 2+2'ers that haven't) so I can't make any reccomendation for or against. I have read NLHTAP several times and it's one of those books that takes several readings to sink in. I'm reading PNL now and am very happy with it. Along the way, I've read a number of books which are supposed to help me with physical tells that come into play only in live games. I like Navarro much better than Carro. I have several other books on my shelf (including Angel Largay's book - I liked it, especially for it's intended nitche - the 1/2 or 2/5 capped buyin casino games.)

I really liked Zen & the Art of Archery (not a poker book, but one with great applicability to the psychological anti-tilt aspect of the game). I'm looking forward to the new Tommy Angelo book, 'Elements of Poker.

In the end, I think its unwise to set your list order in stone before you know what you will need.

Read, play, learn, enjoy!
- dubiousdrift

[BozMan82]

One thing to consider trying: Put TOP in your list twice. Once near the beginning, say 3rd or so. Then again at the end. While playing and reading other books in between continually think about the concepts. During the second read it will be much clearer.