80 river question

Dave Mac · #1 11-26-2005, 02:17 AM

game just started and is 5 handed.
right now it sucks, well kinda, the 1 seat, the villian, is a badish lag, not horrible but not good. however, there is the sense that if you drinks to much or loses he will tilt bad. however, right now he is playing lag, and has shown a few of his turn bluffs that worked. 2 seat is bad, loose and not too aggro.

I am on the Button with Ad7d, 2 seat is utg and limps, folded to me and I raise, sb folds, BB, seat 1, calls, UTG calls.

flop is 8c2c2s
check-check-bet, call, fold, I have hu with seat 1.

turn is a 4h
check check.

river is the 7h
check, i bet and he c-r's I?????

also, do you even bet the river?
dave

flawless_victory · #2 11-26-2005, 02:23 AM

are u asking whether to threebet, or whether to fold?

[ QUOTE ]
also, do you even bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
wow, dude, of course. id value bet AT here.

TStoneMBD · #3 11-26-2005, 02:25 AM

i hate being in these spots because it rarely seems to be a bluff, but in this case the only logical hand he could have is a bluff. its hard to imagine him checking an 8 or a 2 on this river after youve checked the turn. youve represented a probable ace high and he should be betting to get you to call with it. if he understands basic poker theres no reason why he should be ahead of you at this point.

i also like a river bet because he will probably call you with ace high or even king high figuring you cant win. again it doesnt make sense for him to have you beat at this point.

Dave Mac · #4 11-26-2005, 03:24 AM

yeah 3 bet, fold, what would you do? i don't think 3 bet is a viable option but if you can make a case for it than more power to you.
however one note, this is AC, the games don't play like they do online or in cali or in anywhere but maybe passiville. even the 80 with is pretty agro is very tame by online standards, if you bet AKo here you will prolly only get called if you are beat. they give up money but most don't give up money on the river like they do short online.
dave

flawless_victory · #5 11-26-2005, 03:28 AM

yeah, when i responded i thought we were talking about the UB game.
still, i would pay off the river here 4sure. every time.

Dave Mac · #6 11-26-2005, 03:28 AM

this is where i had problems. first i was like what can i beat here, on the river, i can't beat an 8, which i assumed he would have bet. i can't beat a 2, so what did he call the flop with? 33,55,66, possible. but i was not sure. however, when he checked the river again i was like it doesn't matter don't try to put him on anything he obv cannot beat a 7 bet, so i did. then he crs and i get back to trying to put him on a hand and nothing logically works.

but yeah, generally, in these spots i try to ask myself what does it look like he wants me to do. would he cr the river and think i will fold. is this a spot he expets peopple to fold? i would assume that it is not a spot he expets people to fold, so it looks like i should fold. but what can i put him on.
dave

TStoneMBD · #7 11-26-2005, 03:58 AM

sounds like he thinks you think you have to call because he cant logically have a hand that beats you, but he knows you do the opposite of what he thinks so he checkraises knowing you think he thinks youll call when youll actually fold.

/sarcasm

Enon · #8 11-26-2005, 04:38 AM

If Villain is actually badish and lag, he probably would have raised flop with any pair or flush draw and if he did hit a pair of 4s or 7s on turn/river, why wouldn't he bet the river against a very likey ace high?

Looks like he either has complete air here or trip 2s/flopped boat. Your turn check and river bet could very easily prompt a smart lag to try and take the pot away from your likely weak hand with something like QJo. I'll be damned if I'm going to start off a shorthanded session with a pained fold getting 7-1 and not start accumlulating info on this opponent.

Clear call.

dave44 · #9 11-26-2005, 05:05 AM

I think your river play is fine. However, I would much rather bet the turn unless you thought he'd very frequently bluff the river, or that his flop call indicated a level of strength that I'm not seeing.

Bond18 · #10 01-02-2006, 09:36 AM

Im not sure you can really ever 3 bet this river. He'll fold the vast majority of the time you beat him, call if not reraise every time he beats you. What does a 3 bet hope to accomplish here? My personal guess for his hand is 66/55, although the way hes played it im not sure of anything. I would definately early in a session call his river CR, Tstone makes the point that hes often bluffing here and i want to know his style.