VH1's "The Pick up Artist"

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
bk,

The "pick a number" thing isn't "introspective" at all. Its a gimmick. So far, everything I've seen and read about the seduction community is that the response to this criticism is, "Well, that just reels them in. Its unimportant." But, its not. The whole thing is a gimmick. From the opener, to the lingo, to the clothes, from start to finish, its ALL a gimmick. Of course the smartest of those who subscribe to the PUA philosophy are going to realize that they can adapt the methods, study some of the basic psychology behind why certain things are successful, and create their own road to self-confidence. But for those same people to then suggest that such confidence is the heart and soul of seduction is disingenuous. The core of PUA is flash, not substance; gimmicks, not introspection; one-night stands, not relationships; and, ultimately, validation, not confidence.

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Well if you talk to mystery and the like what do you think they are going to say? They are getting 1/2 dozen guys to kick them 1K for a weekend of hanging out in clubs in hot cities all around the world. Of course they are going to market it the way they think will make them the most $.

And I argree it is about validation as well, mystery is a classic narcissist.

I'm not for guys paying mystery and his followers/offshoots for weekend training sessions. I was around prior to mystery ever having a training session, I was around when he was challenging Ross Jeffries to a 1 to 1 competition to see who was best. There is a big business/marketing thing that is all wrapped up in this.

But if your a guy who goes to bars and stands around wishing you had a chick, wishing were talking to chicks, wishiing you had a girlfriend, wishing you were getting laid, and then goes home and whacks off and repeats this for months and months... why get on their case for trying something to change? Hell, at that point it would probably be worth it for them to try to light their farts in front of chicks at a bar, at least that way they will pay attention to them for a moment.

At least they would laugh at your face for being a dummy rather than laughing behind your back for buying them drinks in the hopes of getting some, when even though they accept they have decided to give you 3 min of attention, if that.

Just because the core of PUA is flash and not substance does not make it a bad thing. Why do you care so much, or at all? Are you trying to rescue introverted virgins with no social skills and no confidence and no girls from a chance to get some? I mean if your volunteering your time to take one of these guys under your wing and go out with him week after week to help him get comfortable talking with women, etc more power to you bro. But who care's if it's flash?

Do you think chicks wearing skirts and heels and dancing provocatively is not 'flash'? Do you think girls flipping their hair in clubs and showing their bodies off is 'substance'?

Wanting women is natural. Not being able to get them sucks. If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.

I"m an ex PUA (not saying I was anything great, I was a hack mostly but have been with prob 200+ chicks. Does that make me a bad person? Do you think I might have somehting of value to share with a shy virgin who is 22 yrs old and whacking off 5 times a night that might make his life better?

It's not like the typical PUA's are teaching ppl to hook up with Amish chicks to take their virginity or anyting dude. Most of this stuff is happening in an enviornment where chicks want to be approached by guys and want to be excited and seduced by guys. You have some moral objection to using 'flash', why?

What is so good about the traditional way? Why should guys go around offering chicks bribes to spend time with them (i.e. invites to dinner).

There are a lot of men who get walked all over by women because they lack confidence and have a sex drive and don't know what to do. YOu offer platitudes that make you sound morally superior and the guys might want that too, but they want to get some action more urgently.

[The Don]

Damn good post bk.

I read "The Game" a few months ago and it completely revolutionized the way I look at the male/female social dynamic. I actually always had confidence, a sense of humor, and I am a natural a$shole but I still wasn't getting nearly the ass that I should have been. Just basic tips like the indirect approach, setting a time constraint, what types of topics women are interested in, etc... helped my game 1000x. You don't even have to use canned routines. All you have to do is be confident, funny and talk about things that women are interested in (observations about them/their friends, other people in the bar, relationships, basically anything about the male/female dynamic).

Watch this video for more info.

[Klompy]

Did anyone else find the constant repeating of "only if you buy me a drink first" really weird on this show, or is this a really standard PUA thing?

I liked the show a lot, and I plan on watching it more but I agree with the people who said it's bad that they're kicking a guy off each week.

[snagglepuss]

this is all weird to me, as i already assume 99.98% of the female population is undateable.

i never really care when i go out or try hard because i am lazy and because i have lucksacked my way into a few solid women in the past.

i could probably lower my standards, and be more outgoingly phony and hone myself into what i know a lot of dumb [censored] like. but i would much rather be myself and if a girl is into me and i am into her then great. even if we aren't clicking on any real level, sometimes i just have fun with easygoing fun girls. if not, [censored] it who cares.

*edit* i do get pissed when i think a girl is pretty, funny, has good taste, intelligent etc etc and i think she would be at least a LITTLE interested in me but she completely isn't. that sucks but is easy to deal with

[The Yugoslavian]

Ok, finally watched the first ep. This show is tremendous ofc but I was expecting the worst where I'd just laugh in joy at watching Mystery be himself for half an hour.

Quick thoughts:
- god it was painful to watch those guys get shot down in the club
- that one guy who never smiles, claims he is funny, and only talks to dudes is going to get axed v quickly...
- that one tall guy with the dark hair should be killing at women already
- the guy from MN really does look gay right off the bat, rofl
- wow, all of the lines in this are going to be years old...lovely
- Matador is way less remarkable looking than I imagined
- Mystery was way more subdued than I thought he'd be
- I really hope they bring out Ross Jeffries to embarrass himself at some point
- guh, I wish they could find something besides elimination to keep the episode to episode tension

Final opinion for everyone who is going to watch this:
The pickup community IS NOT about flash. It is marketed as such b/c that is what is demanded. Everyone wants a magic bullet, or lines, or a quick fix, or a specific thing they can do externally to help with their personal growth. This is true for EVERYTHING, not just women.

None of the decent schools of thought or teachers (except some of the more hypnotic/nlp slanted guys) think that getting good at women is fundamentally about flash. It's about body language, confidence, authenticity, and being a compelling person.

Mystery isn't F'ing joking when he says these guys will have to completely change their life to "win" this competition. Their whole reality *must* change.

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

chuddo,

When did you lose your virginity?

PM me if you don't want to post it.

Yugoslav

PS You sound even more apathetic than I do, lol.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Did anyone else find the constant repeating of "only if you buy me a drink first" really weird on this show, or is this a really standard PUA thing?


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very standard way to change the balance of power in a social interaction as well as avoiding supplication (giving into someone's wishes without a reason to - this makes one look, in short, like a loser).

I think someone else explained it above in more detail (altho I didn't read it, they could have been confusing).

[ QUOTE ]

I liked the show a lot, and I plan on watching it more but I agree with the people who said it's bad that they're kicking a guy off each week.

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Yeah, it sucks, but reality TV hasn't come up with a better way of keeping people coming back each week. It just creates a ton of tension and gets viewers to root even more for their fav.

Oh, as for the guys, I think it's a VERY good thing. This show would go a completely different direction if they didn't have that motivation of getting kicked off.

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
The core of PUA is flash, not substance; gimmicks, not introspection; one-night stands, not relationships; and, ultimately, validation, not confidence.

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Some people get over needing validation within their lifetime.

Some do not.

PUAs are much closer to the former than the latter compared with the general population.

Yugoslav

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
this is all weird to me, as i already assume 99.98% of the female population is undateable.

i never really care when i go out or try hard because i am lazy and because i have lucksacked my way into a few solid women in the past.

i could probably lower my standards, and be more outgoingly phony and hone myself into what i know a lot of dumb [censored] like. but i would much rather be myself and if a girl is into me and i am into her then great. even if we aren't clicking on any real level, sometimes i just have fun with easygoing fun girls. if not, [censored] it who cares.



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When you go on a job interview, are you at all 'outgoingly phony'? Do you 'hone yourself into what you know the interviewer wants' at all? or do you just be your usual self to see if you somehow magically click with the interviewer?

Be honest please.

PU'ing chicks is like the job interview, you get your shizat together prior to entering the 'interview' and then make yourself shine duirng the interview. You also keep activley interviewing, you don't just interview with one chick (job prospect). You have the rest of your life to talk about all the random boring [censored] you do in your life and all your problems and she will have plenty of time to get to know your hang ups and quirks if you spend significant time together.

PUA's are Grade AAA master interviewers. They flip the script on the interviewer (the chick), they RAISE the interviewers expectations (the chicks expectations), they demonstrate value and demonstrate that they are in demand, and let the interveiewer know they come at a premium and that the interviewer would be lucky to get them.

It is common sense strategy in the work world looking for jobs, do you berate people for 'being phony' when they actively market themselves in ways they think will land them the best job?

[IQ89]

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Peacocking is the use of attention-getting clothes

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