Two overpair hands at 25NL

GAMB00L · #1 08-08-2007, 04:01 AM

Hand 1: My read on villain (SB) was that he was very tight and aggressive. This is his first three-bet PF in the half-hour or so I had been playing with him. I felt like four-betting would give my hand away and likely fold out everything up to JJ. Therefore, I elect to just call. That is the part of the hand I am most wanting feedback on. If an A falls, I'm planning to take a stab at it and fold to heavy opposition.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($11.25)
Button ($24)
SB ($36.60)
Hero ($64.05)
UTG ($24.65)
MP ($30.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, 1 fold, SB raises to $2.6, Hero calls $2.25, CO folds.

Flop: ($5.85) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $5.75, Hero raises to $61.55 (All-In)

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Hand 2: Here I'm coming from the school of "always raise the same amount preflop" and make my standard raise with aces. I have no useful reads on the caller. In the short time he's been at the table he has done nothing that grabbed my attention and has built his stack up by taking down a couple medium size pots without a showdown.

On the flop I make my standard c-bet and get raised. I have a feeling my push was standard (was it?), but I felt like it was the least bad of many bad choices. I can't call (won't gain any info and he'll likely fire again), certainly can't fold, and any raise will commit me to a showdown, especially when his repushing range includes a lot of worse overpairs.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($17.05)
UTG ($24.40)
Hero ($85.70)
Button ($32.70)
SB ($55.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.85, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.95) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.2, Button raises to $5.65, Hero raises to $86.05 (All-In)

MusashiStyle · #2 08-08-2007, 04:13 AM

It seems to me like hand 1 you are driving away some hands that you want to keep around like 99 tt. I think that shoving is not great. I prefer normal pot -sized raises in this situation or calling even.

in hand 2 this looks pretty standard because the board is pretty draw heavy going all in isn't too bad, though he has a set sometimes. Folding flop isn't too bad if u think his range is like flush draws and sets only.

Klompy · #3 08-08-2007, 04:19 AM

hand 1,

RR PF and it's not even close unless you have a really good read that sb is a super nit.

hand 2,

This hand is questionable on how to play it, and I'm curious what others do. Without a read this is a really hard spot. I think pushing the flop is kinda spewish without any read, but I could be wrong on this.

vixticator · #4 08-08-2007, 04:43 AM

Are you shoving both of these because you don't want to play on the turn or trying to max value?

The first hand he has to be pretty awful to call here with 99/TT/JJ or worse. Fortunately he probably will. You are letting people who can find a fold with those hands play optimally. He puts in a near PSB, makes me think he is going to do it again on the turn so I'm tempted to just call and let him.

Hand two is similar, but there are more hands he can call with... There is really no turn I hate because of the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. You lose a lot of value when you call and check and he checks behind so shoving does seem much better in this spot.

YanP · #5 08-08-2007, 04:47 AM

H1 derf 4-bet prf, get as much money as you can in with KK prf, I like popping up to like $8-9 with the CO in the hand too.

On the flop he’s bet 2.6+5.75 =8.35 leaving him with 28.25 and a pot of 17$ and you put him in for his 28$. If you’re gonna disguise your hand prf, why overbet the flop where he prob only calls with a set or 99+ but prob only with sets QQ+ realisticly, I’d prob reraise but to 14-16ish to take the lead back. And bet/raise the turn or call a push

H2 As prf raises go, spec at 25NL I prefer to raise to 4xBB, popping it to $1 gives slightly worse odds to the blinds, and gets more money in the pot (and I like to raise the same prf every time like you, then I add on an extra BB for every limper)
On the flop once you call the raise the pot is 13 bucks. Your effective stack is 26$ so your push is a 2x pot bet, where you’re getting very few callers from hands you beat.
With the push you are repping a hand like a big flush draw which could get a hand like a small flush draw to fold, which we don’t want. He’s still insta calling with his set but with less hands that you beat.

I think both hands I feel were played too strong on the flop, I don’t mind getting the money in, but by overpushing you’re giving him chances to get away from hands you beat

YanP · #6 08-08-2007, 04:49 AM

like vix said calling the flop on the first hand is pretty good, but personally i'd prob raise, the more i think tho the more i think calling is better against the hands you beat and the same against the hands that beat you. with not many draws out there

GAMB00L · #7 08-08-2007, 04:54 AM

Thanks for the replies.

On hand 1, my thought process was that after villain bet the flop so strongly, he was reasonably likely to go to the felt right there with what I'm guessing is another overpair. But on the turn, any overcard to his pair will kill my chances of stacking him. So yes, I was trying to go for max value with my flop push.

edit: I typed this out before I saw yan's reply. Now I see that villain in hand 1 is probably not as committed as I gave him credit for. Thanks.