KTs gets TP and a caller, now what. 4/180

[Brandonjp13]

Tables been weak, not really aggresive or tight but weak, they fold to much when the shouldnt and call to much when the shouldnt. Villian is no exception. Raises have normally been taking it down hence my KTs raise, figured if i get a call at least I have a couple of broadway cards to play. Whats my play on the river and whats everyone thinking through this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t2915)
UTG (t1595)
UTG+1 (t7730)
MP1 (t1900)
Hero (t6565)
MP3 (t1845)
CO (t2990)
Button (t5355)
SB (t2050)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t450</font>, MP3 calls t450, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t450, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t1575) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1000</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls t1000.

Turn: (t3575) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1500</font>, Button calls t1500.

River: (t6575) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ??

[Sherman]

I'd probably check/raise shove the turn on this hand.

You've got TP with a decent kicker and a good draw. The stack sizes are about right for two more bets to go in. Check and if he makes a decent bet, shove. You might have some FE against KJ and KT and you have a nice draw if he calls. Also, it gets another bet out of any Q's that villain may have floated with on the flop that he folds U/I on the turn.

Anyhow, I think you have to check on the river. Check/fold and check/call both seem marginal.

I think one of the reasons that I like a check/raise on the turn is because when he calls you are in this river spot a lot.

The only problem with the turn check/raise is that there are really only a couple hands that you are folding out (that you would like to fold out). I doubt AK folds the turn, however, Wotmog theorem indicates he should.

[Ken_AA]

I would open push the turn.

I don't like the check/raise turn option as I think when the villian puts a bet in he's basically pot commited and we have very little FE. We have more FE with an open push.

No way I'm folding at this point on the turn so might as well fold out a few hands that may be ahead of me.

As played I vomit on that river ( KJ may have been one of the hands we could have folded out on the turn) and check call(????) I guess but that seems horrible.

Possible hands we are still beating after river include JT, AQ, AhJh (maybe) AhTh (again maybe) TT even less resonable.

Hands we are behind, AK, KQ, KJ, Slow played 77, QJ.

That river sucked, but with those pot odds I guess I really am Check calling.

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
I would open push the turn.

I don't like the check/raise turn option as I think when the villian puts a bet in he's basically pot commited and we have very little FE. We have more FE with an open push.

No way I'm folding at this point on the turn so might as well fold out a few hands that may be ahead of me.

As played I vomit on that river ( KJ may have been one of the hands we could have folded out on the turn) and check call(????) I guess but that seems horrible.

Possible hands we are still beating after river include JT, AQ, AhJh (maybe) AhTh (again maybe) TT even less resonable.

Hands we are behind, AK, KQ, KJ, Slow played 77, QJ.

That river sucked, but with those pot odds I guess I really am Check calling.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah. The stacks aren't quite as deep as I thought. Open-shoving the turn is an overbet, but it may be better than check/shoving. The nice thing about check/shoving with no FE, is that he might feel obligated to call your shove with a worse hand now (like a Q).

[Brandonjp13]

Anyone not feel its a good idea to check the turn here. He could have floated me with any kind of draw, do we really wanna let AQ or another draw get a freebie if they choose? Honestly I feel shoving the turn = bad, he's not stacking off the turn very often with anything we are ahead of most of the time right?

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone not feel its a good idea to check the turn here. He could have floated me with any kind of draw, do we really wanna let AQ or another draw get a freebie if they choose? Honestly I feel shoving the turn = bad, he's not stacking off the turn very often with anything we are ahead of most of the time right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I often check the turn here for the reasons mentioned above. We aren't that concerned about protecting our hand because we aren't sure if we are ahead or behind, but we have plenty of outs if we are behind. If we bet and villain shoves, we aren't going to be getting the right price to call. Also, villain checking behind on the is just fine with us. We have a nice draw and him checking behind allows us to make a small blocking/value bet on the river.

The more I think about, I still like check/shoving the turn.