How many online pros average +500k a year in the world?

[TheJokerIsWild]

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A high limit SNG player could make over 500k in just rakeback alone if he really wanted to and it's basically assumed that SNGs are not the way to go if you want to make the most money in poker. With that being said my guess is around 200 per year with a lot of those only making 500k in a year once or twice in their lifetime.

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LOL, are you high? 500K in rakeback alone??? Ummmm, no.

That's means you're paying about 1.5 million in rake. So say your regular SNG was the $200+16 you would have to play 93,750 of them over the course of the year to pay 1.5M in rakeback. This really isn't possible.

[rwesty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A high limit SNG player could make over 500k in just rakeback alone if he really wanted to and it's basically assumed that SNGs are not the way to go if you want to make the most money in poker. With that being said my guess is around 200 per year with a lot of those only making 500k in a year once or twice in their lifetime.

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LOL, are you high? 500K in rakeback alone??? Ummmm, no.

That's means you're paying about 1.5 million in rake. So say your regular SNG was the $200+16 you would have to play 93,750 of them over the course of the year to pay 1.5M in rakeback. This really isn't possible.

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As a Supernova Elite it would take about 800k in rake. If someone was playing higher than the $216s regularly and averaged $30 in rake/sng it would take 73 sngs a day. I doubt anyone does that this year but it is possible.

[Micturition Man]

This issue is partly complicated by the fact that it's really hard to judge what non-grinders 'incomes' actually are.

For example I think the guy who said there are 20 Finnish players who make over 500k a year is way off.

There may be 20 Finnish players who have had $500k years, or have made $500k so far this year, but that doesn't mean they will have EV's of $500k for the year.

Take KObyTapout. I'm sure that guy was up a million on the year at some point, and I'm sure he thought his annual EV was in the multimillions.

Well reportedly he's broke now. (This is from another Finnish pro.)

Take Till_I_Collapse. I have no idea what his EV is but he could easily have busted had he not run super well at 300/600 NL in matches where he was -EV.

When people play high limits and play with sporadic frequency and mix and match -EV spots with +EV spots, it's pretty much impossible to divine their overall EV.

I can only think of one Finn I am highly confident has an EV of over 500k (Patrik).

I can think of two others who may well have that (Ilari and this other guy I know), but Ilari could just as easily have a -EV for the year (because of playing drunk and playing NL matches where he is -EV.)

That Till_I_Collapse is in roughly the same category as Ilari.

I originally was going to guess an answer to the OP in this thread but decided it was too speculative... one thing is for sure though, there are far far fewer people making 500k a year now than 1-2 years ago.

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
This issue is partly complicated by the fact that it's really hard to judge what non-grinders 'incomes' actually are.

For example I think the guy who said there are 20 Finnish players who make over 500k a year is way off.

There may be 20 Finnish players who have had $500k years, or have made $500k so far this year, but that doesn't mean they will have EV's of $500k for the year.

Take KObyTapout. I'm sure that guy was up a million on the year at some point, and I'm sure he thought his annual EV was in the multimillions.

Well reportedly he's broke now. (This is from another Finnish pro.)

Take Till_I_Collapse. I have no idea what his EV is but he could easily have busted had he not run super well at 300/600 NL in matches where he was -EV.

When people play high limits and play with sporadic frequency and mix and match -EV spots with +EV spots, it's pretty much impossible to divine their overall EV.

I can only think of one Finn I am highly confident has an EV of over 500k (Patrik).

I can think of two others who may well have that (Ilari and this other guy I know), but Ilari could just as easily have a -EV for the year (because of playing drunk and playing NL matches where he is -EV.)

That Till_I_Collapse is in roughly the same category as Ilari.

I originally was going to guess an answer to the OP in this thread but decided it was too speculative... one thing is for sure though, there are far far fewer people making 500k a year now than 1-2 years ago.

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BTW I left Lars Luzak out of my post. Have to go see Bourne Ultimatum though.

[Outlaw4033]

If you made 3.5 BB/100 @ 5/10 NL and played 2k hands a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, you'd make $336k a year. Not including any rakeback.

Seems to me a good grinder who put in the hours could do it at 5/10. Consistancy would be the key.

[dlk9s]

69, dude!

[the_casino_kid]

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69, dude!

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[DLizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
If you made 3.5 BB/100 @ 5/10 NL and played 2k hands a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, you'd make $336k a year. Not including any rakeback.

Seems to me a good grinder who put in the hours could do it at 5/10. Consistancy would be the key.

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stop doing this type of analysis. they don't mean much, not to mention that this one in particular is fairly ridiculous. It is very difficult to independently make 3.5ptbb/100 at 5/10, play 2k hands per day, and play that many days per year, let alone all together.

[teddyFBI]

Don't forget that just a year ago, it was rare for any site to spread higher than 10/20NL and 30/60LHE, and just a year or two before that, top games were ONLY 5/10NL and 15/30LHE. (Yes, some sites would offer higher, but it was NOTHING like it is today where nearly every site has several active tables of 10/20NL+).

Hence, if this Q were asked 3 yrs ago, I would say the number would be 25 or less...and your use of the term "average" is rendered somewhat difficult b/c it would only essentially only include the last 2 yrs or so.

For 2007, I will guess 1,500.

[Taylor Caby]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that just a year ago, it was rare for any site to spread higher than 10/20NL and 30/60LHE, and just a year or two before that, top games were ONLY 5/10NL and 15/30LHE. (Yes, some sites would offer higher, but it was NOTHING like it is today where nearly every site has several active tables of 10/20NL+).


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UB 25/50 has been around since early '04. It still runs pretty regularly and used to run just about 24/7 with a few tables going.

UB introduced 50/100 NL in April of '05. That game ran regularly for 12+ months before the player pool dried up.

There were a decent amount of players beating this game, but you are right in that most sites didn't spread games this high.

tc