Deck change please?

[KenProspero]

Yes.

Next question.

[fishyak]

The number of "set up" requests at Commerce is just astounding. The reasons vary. The only time I take public umbrage is when the request is made during double jackpot time. NO ONE seems to get that dealing fewer hands during the limited time when the JP is higher for the same hand is essentially costing EVERYONE at the table $.

During regular JP I just mark the player as a source of future funds and say nothing. But during double jackpot I now openly confront the request and politely ask that the person defer their request until AFTER the double JP period ends. NONE have backed off. ALL had AMAZING reasons/explanations etc. to proceed. On one occassion, the table voted down the request and the floor backed us. Other times the floor would over rule the majority vote saying its the player's right to make the request, even if it is stupid and pointless.

I will continue my crusade and will publicly confront ANY player who wants a "set up" during double JP time. That player is stealing my $!

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
During regular JP I just mark the player as a source of future funds and say nothing. But during double jackpot I now openly confront the request and politely ask that the person defer their request until AFTER the double JP period ends. NONE have backed off. ALL had AMAZING reasons/explanations etc. to proceed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you're the one slowing the game down.
"NONE have backed down"
Which means that your arguments with them are pointless.

[Gipper]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you ask for deck change if you get AA twice in 5 minutes? deck changes should not be called unless you think the cards are marked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely agree. It's one of my biggest pet peeves to play with someone who seems to watch the clock and call for a set-up the exact second they are allowed by room rules.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? It stops the game for like 30 seconds max.

[/ QUOTE ]

The actual setup, perhaps, but it also interrupts the flow of a game. I've seen loose fish tighten up just from the pause. People have left tables. People you want to stay there happy and loose. On top of that, it's customary to tip the person bringing the cards. You're forcing the dealer to spend money. Anybody who asks for a setup should be the person tipping the floor, but it rarely works out that way.

Do you want me to show up to your job and demand that you hand over money to somebody else for no reason other than my own superstition and/or amusement?

That said, I don't really care, as a few bucks here and there isn't going to make or break me, but this is a slight exaggeration of how ridiculous and borderline rude it is to ask for a setup change.

[q16]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would just ask for a table and/or seat change. I never ask for a new setup unless I see some physically damaged cards.

Asking for a wash typically doesn't slow the game too much and is another option.

[/ QUOTE ]

This needs to be quoted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does this need to be quoted? Do your REALLY believe a seat change with alter the pattern of the totally random card distribution? Thats ridiculous self actualization mumbo jumbo.

[/ QUOTE ]

All 100% true. However, responding to a bad run of cards by asking for a wash or seat change (but not a setup) could be a good move in certain circumstances:

* You are at risk of tilting, but the game is too good to leave, and

* The other players know why you are asking for a wash/change.

You get to head off a potentially expensive tilt. Superstitious players will underestimate you because they think you are unlucky; sensible players will underestimate you because they think you believe in Bad Card Mojo.

As long as it doesn't hold up the game more than a few seconds, I think that misdirecting other players and keeping from slipping into tilt (and at the small cost of a toke to the dealer for humoring you) can absolutely be EV+.

[cardshark]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess if you asked the dealer to give the deck a quick riffle shuffle before putting it into the shuffler, you would not really come across as unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ] This would be extremely unreasonable and I will not do it, and if you ask my floor they will tell me not to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except at Harrah's properties where it's REQUIRED that they do a single riffle before putting the deck in the contraption. In which case, asking them NOT to do the riffle would be met in a similar fashion.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, now that's redundant and that is what slows down the game. The amount of time that an occasional deck change will eat up is insignificant compared to the cumulative amount of time that procedural redundant shuffles will add up to.

What I find particularly interesting is the amount of redundant posts in this thread, people repeating over and over again how a deck change slows down the game. But no one accused Harrah's of wasting valuable time by doing redundant shuffles. After all, Harrah's are professionals, so they must know what they are doing.

The truth is that there can only be one reason why they would instruct their dealers to perform a riffle shuffle before putting the deck into the machine. The reason is that they do not trust the shuffler 100%. If they did trust the machine 100% then there would be absolutely no need to do an extra shuffle.

[Arito]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you want me to show up to your job and demand that you hand over money to somebody else for no reason other than my own superstition and/or amusement?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've seen you demand players hand you money for no other reason than it's customary, and complain when somehow this process is disturbed by pretty much anything. Also, the people that ask for deck changes are most likely superstitious and/or fish, both of which are more likely to tip you (better).

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I've seen you demand players hand you money for no other reason than it's customary, and complain when somehow this process is disturbed by pretty much anything. Also, the people that ask for deck changes are most likely superstitious and/or fish, both of which are more likely to tip you (better).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't demand anybody hand me anything. I have many non tippers every day and I move right along. I think I only once teetered on an argument with somebody in a tipping thread, but by and large I avoid those. Those asking for setup changes already hold me in contempt for giving them cards from the bad deck in the first place. They're already not tipping me when their awful hands occasionally hit a miracle, not to mention likely throwing cards, slowing down the game, and bringing a sour attitude to the table... now they're wanting to keep me from getting tips from others. Happily, our room has a policy of only one setup change between the scheduled 8-hour changes.

This isn't something I lose sleep over, because in the end it's a couple of dollars here and there. I just find it surprising that poker players, who should know all about the aggregate of small advantages, don't always appreciate that this is how we earn our living, too. Don't tap the glass, as they say.