99 turn bet or check question (leads on to more general theory Q)

[nextgenneo]

I am pretty tired and apologise if this is basic. I think I've just been overthinking some things recently.

Anyway, heres something I have been messing up with recently and here is an example. I think it just has to do with me overvaluing the show down value of my hands and not wanting to turn them into thin bluffs.

Hand 1

Vil is a 26/22/3.5 aggro reg

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $336.99
BB: $647.20
UTG: $112.60
MP: $1,615.50
CO: $559.80
Hero (BTN): $394.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $4.00, MP folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $20.00</font>, Hero calls $20.00, 3 folds

<font color="blue">I often 3-bet here but I also call this spot with the limper being a donk who will call a lot and stack pretty light.</font>

Flop: ($50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $35.00</font>, Hero calls $35.00

Turn: ($120) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks or bets?

<font color="blue">So at this point what is the main reason to bet because we could easily be c/r bluffed in this spot from a solid aggro opponent and he rarely has anything to call with right? So to me it seems our hand is too thin to get value from.

Problem with checking though is a lot of times some sort of scare card will come on the river which the opponent will bet. So what are the merits of betting / checking here and what do most people do?</font>

Hand 2

Here is a more fitting example of the concept I am trying to really grasp:

Opponent is playing 28/20/3 so is very aggressive.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $400.00
BB: $400.00
UTG: $450.60
MP: $406.00
CO: $399.20
Hero (BTN): $453.40

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $14.00</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $50.00</font>, Hero calls $36.00

Flop: ($102) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $85.00</font>, Hero calls $85.00

Turn: ($272) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks or bets

<font color="blue">So after floating here we are best to turn our hand into a decent semi bluff (extra GS outs) and shove right here because if we check we are giving a free card and its probably very unlikely that if he shoves river and we call we are good because our hand is way too thin.

So even though our hand is probably good right now its best to shove?</font>

[cbloom]

Hmm. I have also been thinking about this very issue a lot lately.

Anyway in both of these particular hands, I think I would play aggro.

Hand 1 I'd often just raise the flop

Hand 2 I'd like to have a read but shoving can't be awful. Against some people just check and fold to a river bet. Also calling the flop is pretty marginal.

[FionnMac]

I'm too lazy to try and explain why (it's 7am here and i've not been to bed), and i'm not even sure this is correct, but i would usually bet #1 and check #2.

[Thek]

Hand 1:
3-bet. You are crunching he’s range.


Hand 0: 55.203% 54.77% 00.43% 1513593180 12019380.00 { 99 }
Hand 1: 44.797% 44.36% 00.43% 1226026716 12019380.00 { 66+, A3s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo } (if this is his top 22% of raising hands)

As played, bet turn .

Hand 2:

Well it depends on your reads.
How does he play his strong hands?
How does he play overpairs?
Has he 3-bet you often oop?

Try to turn the hands around. How would you play i.e. QQ on this flop?. You would normally C-bet, but will you fired again on turn, on this dry board with a guy cold calling you in pos.? I wouldn’t. (The same goes for AK for that matter)
I think a check is in order and re-evaluate the river.

[jfish]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm too lazy to try and explain why (it's 7am here and i've not been to bed), and i'm not even sure this is correct, but i would usually bet #1 and check #2.

[/ QUOTE ]

4am and ditto.

[JrJordan]

1am here so I'll give my short reasoning.

Hand 1: Bet. Small overpair that's got little chance of improvement, but the bet can protect vs. overcards and likely has value vs. some of villain's original raising range (several 7x hands for example).

Hand 2: Check. Hero is really only getting called by better and folding worse. If he's getting tricky with an overpair c/r type hand then we save some cash, and we get a free card to hit out 5-outer for value town on the river.

Basically, I'm not nearly as worried about giving a free card in hand 2 because it often benefits us more than villain. Vice versa, we are almost always protecting in hand 1 and really don't want to see a scare card.

[JackAll]

Should we be mixing up our play in #2 and shoving a percent of the time?

[Jamougha]

overpair -&gt; bet
bottom pair -&gt; check

Possibly my poker philosophy is too simple but *shrug*