Basic Flop Problem

[Josh.]

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4-handed NL $0.25/$0.50.

Hero is the button and raises to $2 with ... something. SB folds and BB calls. In the couple orbits since you sat down BB seems to be playing lots of hands and so far he hasn't raised preflop. Pot is $4.25.

Flop is J88r. BB checks and Hero bets $2.50. Villain raises to $35 all-in and you have this covered. There is $41.75 in the pot and it will cost you $32.50 to call.

What is your thought process when you see this?

What do you need to call with?

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in my experience, ridiculous overbets from bad players are nearly always some mediocre one pair. it makes no sense at all, but that's just how it is. so here maybe J9 or 77. sometimes he will have an 8, but snap call with KJ+

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Nothing like trying to learn a new form of poker and getting wildly different advice from experienced players. Color me confused.

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i'm right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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i normally agree with you, but if this is the type of guy who never raises preflop, he plays overpairs the same way.

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you don't have to always win. you just have to win enough to make calling profitable

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1,273,140 games 0.016 secs 79,571,250 games/sec

Board: Js 8h 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.411% 34.52% 05.89% 439462 75022.00 { KJs, KJo }
Hand 1: 59.589% 53.70% 05.89% 683634 75022.00 { 77+, AJs, A8s, KJs, K8s, QJs, Q8s, J8s+, T8s, 98s, 85s+, AJo, A8o, KJo, QJo, J9o+, 98o, 87o }


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range look ok?

edit: QQ+ becomes a snapcall with this range though so if its this wide i was off on that

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his range is too weird to stove. i'll paste mine below but it's no less arbitrary than yours. i'm telling you based on my lots of nl experience that this is a snap call/fist pump with KJ


Board: Js 8h 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.090% 44.21% 04.88% 602694 66511.50 { QQ+, TT-99, 77-22, AJs, KJs, QJs, J7s+, T8s, 98s, 85s+, AJo, KJo, QJo, J7o+, T8o, 98o, 85o+ }
Hand 1: 50.910% 46.03% 04.88% 627513 66511.50 { KJo }

[futuredoc85]

ok quotes are getting to long. i was never a limit playe fwiw, but at uNL and SSNL i always got burned on these calls against these weirdos. agree about not really being able to give him an accurate range tho. its also possible im just not remembering the times i stacked some drooler w/ TPGK.

[4_2_it]

doc,

I think the biggest thing that you and I are basing our opinions on is how passive villain had been up to this point. I think we both snap call with an overpair vs a an average or aggro villain, but against a passive villain who wakes up with a hand this is pretty standard fold until you get a read what his range is for pulling that move.

[Josh.]

the important factor is that he plays a lot of hands. he doesn't think logically. that he doesn't raise many hands preflop doesn't mean as much with regard to his postflop play. plenty of 50/5 players are insanely aggressive postflop.

[4_2_it]

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the important factor is that he plays a lot of hands. he doesn't think logically. that he doesn't raise many hands preflop doesn't mean as much with regard to his postflop play. plenty of 50/5 players are insanely aggressive postflop.

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I agree with you; however, the first time I see a passive player do this, I am not looking to felt TP hands. I think we the only thing we disgaree on (slightly) is our read on villain. I do not think we disagree on tactics.

[DeathDonkey]

Interesting that you say that, as the first time I see an unknown do this I'm calling and figuring the worst case is I find out later it was an awful call and I look unbluffable and gain info. I tend to not fold in close spots when I'm dealing with a lack of information, I find this strategy to be higher variance and higher profit (and future profit).

-DeathDonkey

[Josh.]

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Interesting that you say that, as the first time I see an unknown do this I'm calling and figuring the worst case is I find out later it was an awful call and I look unbluffable and gain info. I tend to not fold in close spots when I'm dealing with a lack of information, I find this strategy to be higher variance and higher profit (and future profit).


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i agree with this

[sethypooh21]

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Interesting that you say that, as the first time I see an unknown do this I'm calling and figuring the worst case is I find out later it was an awful call and I look unbluffable and gain info. I tend to not fold in close spots when I'm dealing with a lack of information, I find this strategy to be higher variance and higher profit (and future profit).

-DeathDonkey

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This sounds like me paying off a river bet in LHE.

<----SD monkey.