[NL10] Wanted to play back at an opponent, found my hand and now ?

Zanton · #1 08-06-2007, 05:43 PM

I'm on the left of villain which have been very aggressive from what I have seen. He's 28/20/5 over 70 hands.

My plan on this hand was to play back at him, no matter the flop (except very special ones), to extract more money from him later not specially this hand.

After my raise on flop and his call, I put him on either a queen with a middle kicker or a middle PP. He took a long time before calling.

My main question is on my turn play : I found my trips, and I don't think he puts me on that. I decided to check to make him bluff at me on river or call a big value bet.

What are your thoughts on this play ? No matter the river (which I probably played badly), I was already questionning myself when I made this play.

Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($9.95)
UTG ($2)
MP ($8.15)
CO ($11.90)
Hero ($14.60)
SB ($10.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold.

Flop: ($1.15) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, CO bets $0.85, Hero raises to $2.4, SB folds, CO calls $1.55.

Turn: ($5.95) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: ($5.95) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $4, CO raises to $9.15 (All-In), Hero calls $5.15.

Final Pot: $24.25

Fiksdal · #2 08-06-2007, 05:47 PM

Wow man. Bet 3.75 on the turn for sure. You need to set up a pot so that you can be able to shove the river.

River card sucks so much of course, and I'm probably just checking behind. As played you need to fold. You only beat a bluff, and villain is never bluffing here. Sucks, but let it go.

No Fizzle · #3 08-06-2007, 05:51 PM

I would also add that the call pre-flop is awful.

selector2006 · #4 08-06-2007, 06:03 PM

Wow, this hand give me the creeps!

Don't bluff at 10NL!!!!

It'll work once. It'll maybe work twice. You'll win a little pot. And the third time you lose your whole stack.

You're lucky to hit a miracle card on the turn, BET IT! You won't get much value from your opponent of you check the turn and bet the river when there's a completed flush or straight (not relevant now, but very often so).

You have to bet with good hands when your opponent feels he can still improve, or when he thinks your drawing. You don't slowplay and wait till all cards are out and then try to get all the money in the middle hoping for a magic trick or something.

------
Ok, so again: do not bluff at these stakes. You can stack people often enough when you have a set or another good hand.
If you don't have a good winrate at 10NL it's not because you're not bluffing enough, but because you are playing things not the right way.

Ok, sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, or if I'm just talking nonsense, but I felt the need to say this [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

DaycareInferno · #5 08-06-2007, 06:19 PM

i think the only good reason to check the turn is if you feel pretty confident that he will bet it, and you can get all your chips in right there.

Zanton · #6 08-06-2007, 06:20 PM

The main goal is not to bluff, it's to play back at opponent later. The fact is I found my hand, and wanted to get advice about it. I probably should have bet the turn, but I didn't see him calling with a lone Q or TT, so I checked to INDUCE a bluff.

He found his 2-outers, and I made a bad call but that's another point [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

By the way, I do not agree with not bluffing sometimes. You just have to do it against people you know capable of folding (PT and notes helps for that).

selector2006 · #7 08-06-2007, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, I do not agree with not bluffing sometimes. You just have to do it against people you know capable of folding (PT and notes helps for that).

[/ QUOTE ]

So, why did you bluff in this hand (the flop was a bluff) against an opponent who doesn't fold?
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but please look at the other thread running about bluffing at 50NL:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...n=0&page=0

Read that one, and don't bluff ever again [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Zanton · #8 08-06-2007, 06:35 PM

Did you read the second line of the OP ?
I said I'll play back at him anyway not for this hand, but for next hands. I do that cause he's agressive, and I'm in position on him and those kinds of players are easy to make going on tilt. That's why I played it this way on the flop.
After he called, I was going to fold as I did what I planned, but the turn card changed it, that's all.

I explained why I got in with such a garbage hand to prevent people from posting "fold preflop" (I missed ^^), and be more concerned about the turn play.

I think I missed that too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

selector2006 · #9 08-06-2007, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did you read the second line of the OP ?
I said I'll play back at him anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it and I still think that even if you feel he's after you, you can pick better hands to play back at him.

Like this hand:

SB has raised me before when I raise with garbage from the CO or the button. He knows I steal a lot so he plays back at me. But this time I have a good hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($24)
UTG ($33.25)
MP ($5.15)
Hero ($23.20)
Button ($15.55)
SB ($21.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, SB raises to $3.6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, SB folds.

Final Pot: $7.45

Or this hand I posted before:

You can play back at me, raise me when I miss the flop and you can have the pot. But if I hit it good you gonna have to pay for it.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($7.20)
Button ($25.85)
Hero ($45.40)
BB ($31.25)
UTG ($18.40)
MP ($25.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP folds, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($3) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2, Button raises to $4, Hero raises to $11, Button calls $7.

Turn: ($25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $14, Button folds.

Final Pot: $25

It's like a boxing match, you can make a few punches at me. I laugh at it. You can punch some more, it tickles me. And from the moment you think you can beat me easily, you are not paying enough attention. You'll get sloppy. You bluff and I punish you hard. You are knockout.

Zanton · #10 08-06-2007, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you read the second line of the OP ?
I said I'll play back at him anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it and I still think that even if you feel he's after you, you can pick better hands to play back at him.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't understand... He's not after me. I play to force him to be after me, that's all.