Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread

[tdarko]

A good friend of mine has the start tomorrow against the Giants. I talked to him yesterday and he said he wouldn't mind the record being broken today haha. I told him that at least this is the first time he has ever pitched where he could always be remembered, omg if Bonds hit it off of him when I see him this offseason I am going to give him so much [censored].

[niss]

And I'm sure Greg Anderson has enjoyed quality prison time to avoid having to testify that Barry Bonds *never* used steroids. Right-o.

[4thashortiez]

I will try to catch the ball for you guys tonight.

[RedBean]

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He deserves, and is getting, his full complement of due process with regards to the federal investigation.


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Exactly, and oddly enough, in affording him due process, the grand jury has determined that there is not yet sufficient enough evidence presented to indict him on anything, much less try or convict him.

In fact, the only place he is being found "guilty" is in the media, the very place in which you readily agree that he is not being afforded the same consideration of due process, nor that he has a right.

And I agree with all of this. My only contention was your leap to assert these allegations as fact, when in reality, it is nothing more than allegation...and far from fact.

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Do you guys even understand that "due process" only applies to the courts system?


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And to labor agreements where both sides contractually agree to abide it.

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There is no constitutional right to play in the NFL or MLB. Being arrested means there is substantial evidence against you.


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Holy leaping strawman, batman. No one has asserted Bond's constitutional right to play baseball, nor has he been arrested or indicted.

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So no, I don't think that the Bill of Rights should apply to the Hall of Fame, or the "right" of someone to play professional sports.

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Neither does anyone else, except that strawman you constructed to argue with.

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"Due process" is for people who may be incarcerated

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And for people who contractually agree to observe it as part of a labor agreement. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[RedBean]

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And I'm sure Greg Anderson has enjoyed quality prison time to avoid having to testify that Barry Bonds *never* used steroids. Right-o.

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Draw whatever inference you wish in forming your opinion.

It's only when you then assert that opinion as an undeniable fact that it gets a little shaky.

And while we're on the subject of Greg...you know it has to burn the feds inside to see such loyalty. The man has spent twice as much time locked up for not testifying than he did for actually peddling steroids.

Just further indication that it isn't so much about steroids as it is about them trying to get Bonds for something...anything...and yet they can't.

[DrewDevil]

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So no, I don't think that the Bill of Rights should apply to the Hall of Fame, or the "right" of someone to play professional sports.

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Neither does anyone else, except that strawman you constructed to argue with.

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At this point I'm not sure you're actually reading my posts, and you just think I'm one of the meatheads who wants Bonds thrown out of baseball and sent to prison.

Here's how it's gone:

Me: Bonds used steroids, so I don't think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. [notice I do not say he deserves to be suspended from baseball or indicted for steroid use]

You: Oh yeah, well you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bonds used steroids.

Me: No, but there's substantial credible evidence that he did, and the Hall of Fame is a special place for great non-cheaters.

You: ZOMG you don't believe in due process blah blah blah collective bargaining agreement blah blah no indictments blah blah.

Me: that's not at all what I said, enjoy your denial-fest.

You: [humming the Battle Hymn of the Republic]

I also notice you have not answered my question about whether you believe Bonds used steroids.

[Triumph36]

Drew: please respond to the allegation that Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays used methanphetamines during their major league careers.

Then, ask yourself how Gaylord Perry, an admitted cheater, is still in the Hall of Fame.

Then realize that this 'Bonds doesn't belong in the Hall' is a lot of crap since Bonds would be in without 'cheating' like at least half of the major leagues was doing. I've never fully agreed with RedBean here, but you're being ridiculous. The Hall is not full of our angelic heroes of the past - it's full of guys who were the best at the game, whether or not they cheated. Some of them ended up being the best cheaters.

[dnh83]

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Bonds admitted to taking "flaxeed oil" or whatever which is actually a steriod. I don't see how this is anything but a fact.


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It isn't a fact because it has never been proven that the clear substance believed to be flaxseed oil that Bonds ingested was anything other than actual flaxseed oil.

Granted, circumstantial evidence highly suggests that it was the same "clear" given to other athletes, but circumstantial evidence != fact.

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If this is true, then you're right and I take back what I said.

[tuq]

You guys are retarded to argue with Red Bean about this. In his time on this forum he's had a massive, blinding mancrush on Barry Bonds and will drag anyone willing into pointless semantical arguments about the steroids thing. Just ignore him.

[4thashortiez]

Hey, I know! I will argue that Barry Bonds used steroids! No one has ever brought up this point before. Its a good thing I have such a new and edgy viewpoint. Having a roundabout argument between people who will absolutely never agree ever is very constructive and totally doesn't make me look like a giant tool!