NL50 Am I too weak tight?

AMadison · #1 08-05-2007, 01:16 AM

I don't really understand those of you advocating the call of the flop in hand 1.... I don't see the benefits to simply calling. I understand not wanting to get commited with TP2K, and that's all well and good. But if we don't want to get commited with a marginal holding like that shouldn't we fold the flop, not call? Also, if we aren't willing to play TP2K very strong, shouldn't we not even be raising with KQo UTG? Maybe I'm missing something, and I'd love to here more why people think calling is the correct play. Calling really doesn't make any sense to me.

Also, I don't understand why we wouldn't bet that turn after calling the flop. If villian was looking to CR, wouldn't he have done it on the flop expecting us to C-Bet. A CR by the villian on the turn makes no sense to me, he has no reason to expect us to bet. So won't his check say "I'm weak" not "I've got a monster and I'm going to CR you" more often than not? If that's the case, isn't this a spot we have to bet if we want to win this pot?

ChicagoPoker · #2 08-05-2007, 01:47 AM

Madison - I agree. Specifically about this point: If we're scared to play a Q-high flop with this hand, why are we raising it UTG? What if a K hand come? Would we then be afraid of AK?

I think the river donk is just trying to push you off the hand. I see it often from donks on FTP.

dregal · #3 08-05-2007, 02:51 AM

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I don't really understand those of you advocating the call of the flop in hand 1.... I don't see the benefits to simply calling. I understand not wanting to get commited with TP2K, and that's all well and good. But if we don't want to get commited with a marginal holding like that shouldn't we fold the flop, not call? Also, if we aren't willing to play TP2K very strong, shouldn't we not even be raising with KQo UTG? Maybe I'm missing something, and I'd love to here more why people think calling is the correct play. Calling really doesn't make any sense to me.

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Its not that we are afraid of being behind when we get donked into on the flop (hence no one suggested folding), it's that we are not getting value from many worse hands is we raise. Additonally, the board is very dry, so we don't have to worry about giving a "cheap" card.

As an ex, if villian leads into us with QJ/Q10/A8 he will most likely fold to a raise. However if we raise the flop donk, we are def getting action from sets & 2 pair hands.

AMadison · #4 08-05-2007, 03:35 AM

If the reason we aren't raising is that we want to extract value when we are good, not because we fear we are beat, then don't we have to either bet the turn or at least call the river? What value is there to calling a pot sized bet on the flop only to fold to a pot sized bet on a later round (especially after the villian gave us a chance to take the pot on the turn)?

dregal · #5 08-05-2007, 01:57 PM

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If the reason we aren't raising is that we want to extract value when we are good, not because we fear we are beat, then don't we have to either bet the turn or at least call the river? What value is there to calling a pot sized bet on the flop only to fold to a pot sized bet on a later round (especially after the villian gave us a chance to take the pot on the turn)?

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You can def make a case for calling the river bet...as played (w/o reads) I dont think its unreasonable. My bigger point was about why not raising the flop is the best play here. Unless we know the villian is a major donk who will stack off very light, TPGK is a hand I want to play a medium size pot with and not necessarily get my whole satck in the middle.