what line do you take with AA here nl50? - Page 2

kaz2107 · #11 08-03-2007, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
flatting AA oop =

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($49.35)
MP ($77.05)
CO ($62.65)
Hero ($50.50)
SB ($22.25)
BB ($58.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $2, CO calls $2, Hero raises to $9, 2 folds, MP calls $7, CO calls $7.

Flop: ($27.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $9, MP raises to $68.05, CO calls $53.65 (All-In), Hero calls $32.50 (All-In).

Turn: ($176.55) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($176.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $176.55

Results in white below:
MP has Ac Ad (one pair, aces).
CO has 2s 2d (three of a kind, twos).
Hero has 7h 7d (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $152.25. CO wins $24.30. MP wins $14.40.

[/ QUOTE ]meh. that situation is WAY worse cuz u only put more monies in when u hit ur set. villian in this hand has a huge hand thus will stack off on SOOOOO many more flops where he is drawing near dead

tiger_hall · #12 08-03-2007, 03:22 PM

try and get all money in pre flop if you think he is going to call you

gumpzilla · #13 08-03-2007, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
its nl50--- having a wide 4betting range is a pretty bad idea---
but 4betting in this spot for me generally always induces 2 folds, so why not just shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your shoving range is different than your 4betting range here? That seems like the real problem to me. Why mix that up instead of just doing the same thing with everything that you're going to raise there? If people can put you on AA there any time you raise less than shoving, then you should be doing that more (if they're always putting you on AA, then they'll never fold!), or you should just stop doing it altogether and do the same thing with AA as with any other biggish hand there.

The fact that you think that having a wide range is a bad idea suggests to me that people aren't really going to put you on AA just because you made a normal 4 bet, and people are generally more likely to call that than a shove barring that consideration, so I like a 4bet better. Just do it with other hands sometimes.

EDIT: Yes, sometimes you'll run into sets. Oh well. If you don't ever want to flat call with AA PF, then you need to widen the range of hands you 4bet/shove with.

ssdex · #14 08-03-2007, 03:24 PM

i think my point is, any hand thats calling a 4bet is probably calling a shove? no? so are we really losing any value if we shove here?

note: this play is for 100bb effective stacks--- i agree on 4betting if you are deeper.

TheSalche · #15 08-03-2007, 03:24 PM

Flat calling on the button also either puts your hand face up or makes you looks like a donkey. Min-4-bet FTW!

ssdex · #16 08-03-2007, 03:26 PM

at nl50 your image only involves usually the time you've spent with people during that sesh at the table--- and everyone leaves so fast--- people dont have time to pick up on your 4betting ranges b/c tables break up so quickly

I dont think your image or "4betting ranges" matter much until you play with the same people with some kind of regularity.

kaz2107 · #17 08-03-2007, 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think my point is, any hand thats calling a 4bet is probably calling a shove? no? so are we really losing any value if we shove here?

note: this play is for 100bb effective stacks--- i agree on 4betting if you are deeper.

[/ QUOTE ]exactly. 4 betting looks MUCH scarier then a shove. u could b a random retard shoving with A6s or sumtin but NO ONE 4 bets at 50nl with less then like QQ. shove>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;>>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>>>>>>>4be t. it isnt close imo

gumpzilla · #18 08-03-2007, 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think my point is, any hand thats calling a 4bet is probably calling a shove? no?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there are a couple of hands that might talk themselves into dumping in that spot, yes. AQ, JJ or TT might find a fold that they don't if you make a smaller 4 bet, and if they end up as overpairs after the flop they'll probably still stack off anyway. It probably depends on your opponent.

MrGrand · #19 08-03-2007, 03:28 PM

some stats/reads on CO would help
instead of 4bet I like shoving more because it looks much more like AK and they might call with middish pairs

gumpzilla · #20 08-03-2007, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I dont think your image or "4betting ranges" matter much until you play with the same people with some kind of regularity.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does matter is the perceived 4betting range of an average NL50 regular. If the assumption is "nobody 4bets with less than X" and people will all play accordingly, then you can exploit that. That this is not your "true" image is largely irrelevant.