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#51
08-02-2007, 10:21 PM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
[ QUOTE ]
There are way better NLHE tournament players than hellmuth under the age of 25. At LEAST 10. [/ QUOTE ] thread is worthless w/out list of players jimmy 
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#52
08-02-2007, 11:46 PM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There are way better NLHE tournament players than hellmuth under the age of 25. At LEAST 10. [/ QUOTE ] thread is worthless w/out list of players jimmy [/ QUOTE ] Just offhand, there are a LOT more players that have been left out of this list: Imperium Zeejustin Steve Paul-Ambrose TheNewf/SirWatts RandAllin Thayer JSchnett mlagoo Aaron Been Kush Patel ActionJeff Alex Jacob Carl Olson These are just a few people who I believe absolutely crush tournaments and have way more understanding of NLHE and tournament strategy than Hellmuth. I left a lot of talent off the list but these are just a few names who are going to come out a lot in the next few years. Note that two of the people on the list are 18.
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#53
08-03-2007, 03:27 AM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are way better NLHE tournament players than hellmuth under the age of 25. At LEAST 10. [/ QUOTE ] thread is worthless w/out list of players jimmy [/ QUOTE ] Just offhand, there are a LOT more players that have been left out of this list: Imperium Zeejustin Steve Paul-Ambrose TheNewf/SirWatts RandAllin Thayer JSchnett mlagoo Aaron Been Kush Patel ActionJeff Alex Jacob Carl Olson These are just a few people who I believe absolutely crush tournaments and have way more understanding of NLHE and tournament strategy than Hellmuth. I left a lot of talent off the list but these are just a few names who are going to come out a lot in the next few years. Note that two of the people on the list are 18. [/ QUOTE ] 2007 WSOP CASHES (from Pokerpages.com): Hellmuth: 1st, 6th, 25th, 31st, 95th, 104th Jacob: 3rd, 58th, 96th Bonomo: 4th, 49th, 58th Ambrose: 4th, 98th Mizzi: 17th, 43rd, 208th Hellmuth had a better WSOP than the top players on your list. I am not sure how they "absolutely crush" and "understand strategy" better than Hellmuth. Does Hellmuth or any other experienced pro know that these young internet players are "crushing" him? Hellmuth actually had a better WSOP in 2006 with these cashes: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 13th, 44th, 44th, 67th. I only looked up the internet players I had heard of, so this is an incomplete list. I am sure this posting will send many people on mega-tilt or whatever, and I will get flamed, I am sure. Let me just say that I respect everyone's game on this list. I am not sure why the internet players are so vehement in their disrespect for the older players' games. Anyway, let the flames begin...
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#54
08-03-2007, 08:56 AM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
Hellmuth is the best NL tourney player, I would think that's pretty easy to work out even for those who dont like the guy.
No one gets that lucky, Hellmuth clearly has a very good understanding of how to play these things.
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#56
08-03-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
McCutter, the biggest misconception by the public is that cashes matter at all. The only thing that matters is wins. Yes, I know that Hellmuth has a lot of wins too but to say he's better because he cashed more is ridiculous.
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#57
08-03-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
Whose better at his trade , somebody who cashes a lot or somebdoy with a single "lucky win" (or 2nd place for that matter). Obvious answer is somebody who cashes a lot.
True of most professions. Just because a guy got winner once in the stock market and made a HUGE bundle doesn't make him the best in his trade. However, someone who consistently outperforms: cashes higher, and more often: than everyone else, in the long term, could be considered best at their trade. A name on your list may turn out to be that guy, but, I didn't think this was a prognostication (go look it up) contest.
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#58
08-03-2007, 01:01 PM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
[ QUOTE ]
Whose better at his trade , somebody who cashes a lot or somebdoy with a single "lucky win" (or 2nd place for that matter). Obvious answer is somebody who cashes a lot. True of most professions. Just because a guy got winner once in the stock market and made a HUGE bundle doesn't make him the best in his trade. However, someone who consistently outperforms: cashes higher, and more often: than everyone else, in the long term, could be considered best at their trade. A name on your list may turn out to be that guy, but, I didn't think this was a prognostication (go look it up) contest. [/ QUOTE ] The amount of condescension in your post is ridiculous. I'm 20, not an idiot. If you actually knew anything about actually playing poker whatsoever, you'd know that in tournaments, the results of any tournaments you play in don't matter when determining how good you are. These people I chose make the best decisions to winning the tournament, which is the most +EV way to play them. In the long run, it's much better to have a 'lucky win' than tons of cashes, and it takes much more skill to win a tournament than to cash it repeatedly. You won't believe that this is true, but it is. It's interesting how amazingly correct you think you are when you probably have no experience whatsoever playing high stakes tournament poker. An armchair professional does not get my respect.
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#59
08-03-2007, 01:32 PM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
Gobbo,
Does it mean anything to you that the second player on your list, ZJ, had this to say about Hellmuth: "he is bar-none, the best player in the world in these large-field small-buyin events full of weak players." I don't know what he means by "small buy-in" since he was referring to a $5K buy-in WSOP event when he said that but its quite an endorsement. FWIW he also said he would crossbook .1% of Phil in the Main Event against anyone in the World.
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#60
08-03-2007, 01:32 PM
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Re: who is the best NL hold\'em player?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Whose better at his trade , somebody who cashes a lot or somebdoy with a single "lucky win" (or 2nd place for that matter). Obvious answer is somebody who cashes a lot. True of most professions. Just because a guy got winner once in the stock market and made a HUGE bundle doesn't make him the best in his trade. However, someone who consistently outperforms: cashes higher, and more often: than everyone else, in the long term, could be considered best at their trade. A name on your list may turn out to be that guy, but, I didn't think this was a prognostication (go look it up) contest. [/ QUOTE ] The amount of condescension in your post is ridiculous. I'm 20, not an idiot. If you actually knew anything about actually playing poker whatsoever, you'd know that in tournaments, the results of any tournaments you play in don't matter when determining how good you are. These people I chose make the best decisions to winning the tournament, which is the most +EV way to play them. In the long run, it's much better to have a 'lucky win' than tons of cashes, and it takes much more skill to win a tournament than to cash it repeatedly. You won't believe that this is true, but it is. It's interesting how amazingly correct you think you are when you probably have no experience whatsoever playing high stakes tournament poker. An armchair professional does not get my respect. [/ QUOTE ] "The amount of condescension in your post is ridiculous" --I found that line funny coming from Gobbo, who is one of the most condescending posters on 2+2 (and did anyone see his Aussie Millions interview????). Gobbo is a very good player, but he is not humble, nor is he particularly charitable towards anyone who doesnt play his style of poker.
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