So i hate folding, but i really wanted to here! - Page 2

TwistedEcho · #11 08-02-2007, 07:35 PM

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Given that he's a reg give him QQ or AK and call. I like leading the flop as well--makes your decision down the line much simpler.

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WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TO LEAD THE FLOP, HE HAS THE BETTING LEAD AND WE ARE WA OF HIS RANGE

TwistedEcho · #12 08-02-2007, 07:37 PM

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I would love to play regs that minraise AA pre and minbet...

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I meant its a regular sng, not a turbo. My pupil refuses to play turbos so w/e, its his money.

Villain is a random.

BradleyT · #13 08-02-2007, 07:37 PM

It's the gay min-bet raise on the end that scares me. The only hands we beat/tie doing this are AK and AQ. And 90% of the time this raise is from a hand that wants to be called.

AQ/AK probably leads the flop with 2 hearts out there and to start building a pot for value.

QQ sighs at the flop and says, "nice ace rag hand donk".

When hero checks the turn QQ says, "I'll make a little probe bet to see if he does have an ace".

When hero leads the river QQ says, "Sweet, here comes the min-raise that he has to call with an ace".

Chipchucker5 · #14 08-02-2007, 07:40 PM

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Given that he's a reg give him QQ or AK and call. I like leading the flop as well--makes your decision down the line much simpler.

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WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TO LEAD THE FLOP, HE HAS THE BETTING LEAD AND WE ARE WA OF HIS RANGE

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I def don't like betting the flop. If he has TT-KK we're better off showing weakness and hoping to get a bet out of him, and if he has AA/AK, we're way behind. I don't see much value in taking the lead.

ymu · #15 08-02-2007, 07:46 PM

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I don't understand why you bet the river if you had any intention of folding. c/c makes a lot more sense.

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Because he calls a river bet with more hands than he bets (TT/JJ/KK/Ax might check behind). When he raises, his range is obviously different than it was when i bet

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The way this hand played out, I'm expecting him to bet with more than he'd call with and a river bluff wouldn't surprise me. I also still have no idea where I am, so I want to keep it cheap instead of turning top 2 into a bluff.

TwistedEcho · #16 08-02-2007, 07:49 PM

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I don't understand why you bet the river if you had any intention of folding. c/c makes a lot more sense.

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Because he calls a river bet with more hands than he bets (TT/JJ/KK/Ax might check behind). When he raises, his range is obviously different than it was when i bet

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The way this hand played out, I'm expecting him to bet with more than he'd call with and a river bluff wouldn't surprise me. I also still have no idea where I am, so I want to keep it cheap instead of turning top 2 into a bluff.

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checking this river seems way too nitty, if he was going to bluff at this hand, you'd expect it to be on the Ahi flop. Since he didn't bet he either A)sucks, B)is trapping, or C)pot controlling with something like KK-TT

Since We now beat most of his trap Ax hands (except AA, i don't expect him to have A7 here) AND all the pot controlling hands have to call since my line looks donkish and weak, why wouldn't you bet. I don't get what hes suddenly going to be bluffing with and we beat most of his holdings, so seems a really easy bet.

However when he raises the river, his range changes, and i don't like my hand so much anymore.

Jacey · #17 08-02-2007, 07:50 PM

Ok I'm dying to know what happened here, I'm having trouble deciding if it's a clear fold or clear call (well actually it's neither)

I think I may have cr'ed the turn

allhappythoughts · #18 08-02-2007, 07:55 PM

The value in leading the flop, I think, is to begin to define his holding and where we stand relative to it. We may not get as much value, but I think our decisions become a little easier as the hand moves forward. Our decision's a lot tougher now.

TwistedEcho · #19 08-02-2007, 07:57 PM

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The value in leading the flop, I think, is to begin to define his holding and where we stand relative to it. We may not get as much value, but I think our decisions become a little easier as the hand moves forward. Our decision's a lot tougher now.

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This is all horribly wrong and flawed thinking. Whenever you want to bet for information, its usually a bad excuse for making a bad play.

allhappythoughts · #20 08-02-2007, 08:06 PM

Could you give a more detailed analysis of how it's wrong and flawed thinking? I would have bet either the flop or the turn to see where I stood. If he calls either time, I have to tighten up his range. You play the hand very passively up until the river, so maybe he thinks he can steal it away from you.

But I don't have nearly the amount of experience you have, so I'm very interested to hear your take on why betting for info is bad. If he calls my turn bet I'm shutting it down and maybe c/c a small river bet, otherwise folding. At least to me, it seems like it saves you chips in the long run. But again, I don't necessarily know what I'm talking about.