AK blind battle vs regular

[SunyD]

I'd raise preflop to about $21. Once SB puts in the third raise to $99, you might want to slow down a bit. I doubt he's folding anything at this point, so your re-raise all in is too much like gambling 50/50, if that.

I'd say once SB makes it $99 - just call at that point, and use your positional advantage to outplay on the flop.

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
thats the most rediculously bad play ever. didnt harrington say to keep pots small until you have the best of it? its at least a race here at best.. of which you are a dog. NL is about avoiding these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]


this isn't a tournament

[cbboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise preflop to about $21. Once SB puts in the third raise to $99, you might want to slow down a bit. I doubt he's folding anything at this point, so your re-raise all in is too much like gambling 50/50, if that.

I'd say once SB makes it $99 - just call at that point, and use your positional advantage to outplay on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the 4-bet is pretty bad. Its a push or fold sitaution imo.

[strde635]

really? wow and that means?

tournaments are all about making moves like this one.
cash games are abouts avoding moves like this.
this basic poker.

[murmeltier21]

you definately cannot call the 4bet. push if your read is strong enough or fold if you think your beat most of the time.
calling the 4bet is terrible (edit: 'terrible' means you cannot call +ev).
folding > raising > calling

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
really? wow and that means?

tournaments are all about making moves like this one.
cash games are abouts avoding moves like this.
this basic poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

the way im reading it (correct me if i'm wrong) is that you advocate avoiding marginal +EV situations and wait for better ones

[SunyD]

Now that I think about it, calling the 4-bet is actually a mistake. Sorry for the bad advice...

SB is just showing an extreme amount of strength. I dont like getting my stack all-in preflop with AKo, after 4 bets, when I'm fairly sure SB is going to call. Without any reads, I'd probably fold.

[strde635]

i avoid pushing with AK dominated unless its a total donk. if it werent for people overplaying AK against my big pairs id not nearly make as much money.

this is not a +ev situation. its a race, or he is already beat - which ak has -ev in these situations.

now if this guy three bets often with hands like AQ and you are sure of this, then pushing is +ev.

but most of the time its not a donk so think it through.

[Ringmaster]

This is one of those hands that we can't really comment on, as we don't really have a "feel" for the table dynamics like you do. In a vacuum it seems horrible, but it's definitely the right move in some situations (I've done this before with less). Given this is BvB and that your read is accurate, the 5 bet all-in seems fine.

[ig06]

Sorry if tl;dr!
strde635, with all due respect I think this is a gross oversimplification of a very difficult topic (3/4-betting).
My own view is that:
1) In total donk fest games, all sorts of players are 3-betting and 4-betting light and with little or no regard for opponent ranges (or on a hunch or whatever). A tight player can make a killing in such a game, by ensuring his 3- and 4-betting ranges and calling ranges are tight enough to crush those of his opponents.
2) In somewhat tougher games, players have learnt not to give money away so easily. Most players are usually not 3- betting or calling 3-bets/4-betting with non-premium hands except for the occasional bluff.
3) In a game such as 2, the correct adjustment is to widen your 3-betting/4-betting ranges to exploit tight players who will make incorrect folds pre-flop or on the flop. Of course you only make this adjustment against such players.
4) When a significant number of players are good/observant enough to understand this and to analyse/think effectively about 3 and 4-betting ranges against different types of opponent the games get tougher. The result is that the tight player who was crushing the donk fests in 1) and is routinely folding AK to significant pre-flop action from a good aggro player is now getting crushed. In contrast good players are 3-bet semi-bluffing and are felting AK as standard (against some players). Unfortunately, this has now filtered down to SSNL and there are far more tough regs doing this than there used to be.
Such is life but at any rate I don't think 5-bet pushing AK in a SB vs BB battle against an aggro opponent can be disregarded as terrible when (for reasons outlined above) its often pretty standard. Btw, obv if its a flip its hugely +EV to 5-bet all-in compared to folding (money already in pot). A quick calculation indicates we need 45% equity for a 5-bet push to be as good as folding.

With that said we started with eff stacks of >150BB deep and I tend to think its marginal and maybe a fold in this case. His 4-betting range can be pretty wide and still have too much equity if he is calling with all of it, e.g. 88-AA,AK,AQs has 56.65% equity. I think with these stacks sizes you need:
1) Him to have a pretty wide 4-betting range, ideally with some semi-bluffs like mid-pairs or AXs or whatever. Obv this needs a read based on history.
2) Him to be folding some of the pairs in that range (note that even 22-AA,AK,AQs has >55% equity against OP's hand).