LO8 Big Pot, Bottom Two +Non Nut Outs=Bad Call?

[cgkid]

I'm interested in thoughts on the pre flop call and the flop call. I would normally fold this hand in MP pre flop but that may be too nitty. Any thoughts from Buzz and Tex especially appreciated.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2, folds, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, CO folds.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8BB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (12BB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets

[Zima421]

would really like to hear some comments from some of the more well respected posters on this forum regarding this hand...thanks in advance...

[franknagaijr]

Are zima421 and cgkid really the same person? Seems odd that cgkid specifies responses from only two people, and zima bumps the thread with a similar request.

You may want to loosen your pre-response acceptance ranges. (Forrest Gump can give really good advice on ping pong.)

[Zima421]

no, we are not the same person...i have been a lurker forever and just recently decided to start to try and respond to hands...i have the same type of questions cgkid has and just wanted a response...i understand just because you arent "the best o8 player in the world", you can still have some insight...but when someone who is well respected answers, sometimes stuff sinks in better

[franknagaijr]

May I respectfully suggest that you offer your critique of the hand? If people disagree, you'll hear about it.

[cgkid]

I don't even know who zima 421 is and I would bump it myself if I wanted it bumped.

If you read the OP correctly I wasn't limiting responses in any way. I was simply expressing my desire for responses from a couple of posters in particular.

[Buzz]

cgkid - I'd play this starting hand in my games. I think it's a rather weak starting hand, but I'd limp with it and then call the late position raise, just the same as you did.

Then I'd almost surely directly bet this flop after three checks with Button left to act. I don't like the flop fit much, but I'd bet anyhow, as much to disguise other future hands I'd bet with flops such as this as to profit on this particular hand. But I'd also want to get information and I think you get better information by betting the flop than by check-calling.

(You probably profit more from the mistakes of your opponents than from your own play. You want to give them opportunities to make mistakes. You make play more difficult for your opponents when you are more aggressive and thus they are more likely to make mistakes. You don't want to be overly-aggressive, but I'd turn up the heat a little bit more than you directly after the flop when you have a hand with which you will continue. Not too much. Just nudge that heat upwards a tad. In other words, bet this flop with your hand.)

You don't exactly get specific information about what cards your opponents hold, but I think you get a better feel for the way things are. But that's just part of my style. I'm always trying to read my opponents. That's the essence of the game for me.

At any rate, your opponents in front of you all call Button and you don't get much information from that, but they might not have all called you, or Button might have folded or raised and things might be different if you had bet the flop.

I like your bet on the turn and again on the river. Actually, the way things turned out, you probably played the hand optimally (unless one of the players in front of you ended up with a better full house after continuing with a hand he would have folded to action from you on the flop).

Buzz