$3.30 - Is this a push preflop?

Ravi · #1 07-27-2007, 02:20 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG (t4225)
UTG+1 (t14118)
MP1 (t8033)
MP2 (t2361)
MP3 (t2655)
Hero (t5182)
Button (t4914)
SB (t4232)
BB (t10820)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to t1200, Button calls t1200, 2 folds.

Flop: (t2600) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t2222, Button calls t2222.

Turn: (t7044) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t1467 (All-In), Hero calls t1467.

River: (t9978) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t9978

Trying to improve my game after/just before bubble this was just after. Called on the river as I figured if he had a K he didnt have the boat as he wouldnt have called with K2/K8 so good odds for the flush...

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

greggg230 · #2 07-27-2007, 02:37 PM

No, from CO with effective stack of 13 BB your +EV pushing range is very small assuming a reasonably loose range for your opponents. It would be something like AQ or AK+, TT+.

Unless your opponents have a very exploitable playing style, I would think you should generally not be pushing pre-flop with blinds still this low. A simple bet of 2.5 BB will get most marginal holdings to fold and you can get away from marginal hands if you're re-raised.

You can bet less on the flop. Button is short enough that a pot-sized bet will be enough to get him off any hand that he won't be willing to take to the bank, most likely. I'd bet a little over half the pot.

Turn call is fine as played, but you could get away from it if pre-flop and flop bets were smaller.

Pot size in post does not make sense to me. You raise to 1200 and he called 1200. SB = 200, BB = 400. 1200 + 1200 + 200 + 400 = 3000?

In any case, if you made a 2.5 BB raise pre-flop, pot would be t2600 post-flop. With a t1400 bet on the flop and a call, pot would be t5400 with effective stack size at 2300. You would not be pot-committed on the turn to a shove and could get away with some small amount of chips to hopefully rebuild.

levAA · #3 07-27-2007, 02:37 PM

A push here is +EV only against 3 very tight opponents (TT+,AQs+,AKo), if they are looser than that - and normally they are much looser this is -EV for pushing.

I personally would just throw it away.

On the flop your bet size is too large. You are already pot committed. So either shove it or check.

Call on turn clear is ok.
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[ QUOTE ]
In any case, if you made a 2.5 BB raise pre-flop, pot would be t2600 post-flop. With a t1400 bet on the flop and a call, pot would be t5400 with effective stack size at 2300. You would not be pot-committed on the turn to a shove and could get away with some small amount of chips to hopefully rebuild.

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with 2300 in a 5400 pot i think you are pot committed

greggg230 · #4 07-27-2007, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A push here is +EV only against 3 very tight opponents (TT+,AQs+,AKo), if they are looser than that - and normally they are much looser this is -EV for pushing.

I personally would just throw it away.

On the flop your bet size is too large. You are already pot committed. So either shove it or check.

Call on turn clear is ok.
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[ QUOTE ]
In any case, if you made a 2.5 BB raise pre-flop, pot would be t2600 post-flop. With a t1400 bet on the flop and a call, pot would be t5400 with effective stack size at 2300. You would not be pot-committed on the turn to a shove and could get away with some small amount of chips to hopefully rebuild.

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with 2300 in a 5400 pot i think you are pot committed

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Just because you're getting 3:1 odds does not mean you need to stack off..

Unless villain has complete air, he's drawing to 7 or 8 outs (if villain has flush, 7 clubs left in the deck; if villain has an 8 he either has a club kicker or the club would pair his kicker and give him a boat). So he's about a 5:1 dog. Easy fold

Ravi · #5 07-27-2007, 02:50 PM

gregg - Yes the HH is wrong, the pot size before flop was 3225. Thanks for both your comments, I have no idea why I bet so much on the flop, probably a donkmoment.

Button had Ah2h which suprised me, was he right to call preflop? He had position on me but other than that I cannot understand why he just called with the A2. Although on the other hand he had limped UTG+1 with KTs a few hands before..

Sherman · #6 07-27-2007, 02:56 PM

Antes?

Shoving is probably marginally +EV.

Raising to 1K isn't terrible as it leaves you with 10BBs if someone shoves over the top.

Folding is fine too.

I really don't like raising to 1.2K.

greggg230 · #7 07-27-2007, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
gregg - Yes the HH is wrong, the pot size before flop was 3225. Thanks for both your comments, I have no idea why I bet so much on the flop, probably a donkmoment.

Button had Ah2h which suprised me, was he right to call preflop? He had position on me but other than that I cannot understand why he just called with the A2. Although on the other hand he had limped UTG+1 with KTs a few hands before..

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Definitely not correct to play A2 here. It is a hand that is impossibly hard to play post-flop, even with position, in these conditions. It's not surprising, though.