playing against ratholers

[Moonshine]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a great thread, I think the next thing to do is lets open up our PTs and analyze the ranges and tendencies of the most annoying SSers on the major sites and post them in a single thread. Time to put these cockroaches down once and for all.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, never has so much stupidity and complete ignorance to the subject at hand gone into one concise post.

well done sir.

[EPiPeN11]

People need to chill out.

I've never shortstacked before in my life, but honestly there is nothing wrong about it. It's within the rules, they can do whatever they want. It's not cheating or unethical or anything of that sort. If you can't beat the shortstackers, you clearly are not good. You obviously have to play a different way vs them if you want to be profitable. It's poker, learn to adjust and stop crying.

[MDMA]

Uhm, if you think that just because shortstackers beat you you are essentially playing bad, then think again.

You have to realize that a 100bb player ALWAYS has to make a tradeoff between a range that plays well vs 100bb players and bad versus shortstacks, and vice versa. This INHERENT advantage to the shortstacker who ONLY has to think about one range and one range only is something that is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to overcome completely.

Yes, you can reduce the value they get from you, but to essentially make them play break even vs you, you are more than likely opening up a situation where you will, given how game theoretically "bad" we all are at playing 100bb poker, open up spots where the other big stacks will exploit you instead.

[nadical]

a ss has to think about more than one range, different regs all with differnt valued hands, some wont call unless like aj+ others call with q8 suited and poop like that. Ruining his games for him, OMG SO ANOTHER REGULAR KEEPS 3 BETTING ME LETS MAKE A THREAD AND PUT ALL OUR READS TOGETHER TO BEAT HIM. i just think threads like this are worse than the short stackers and luego should suck it up.

[MDMA]

Uh, you clearly misinterpreted me if you think I meant they only have ONE range, come on, I'm just saying that since the two types of stacks sizes that causes two different opening ranges to be optimal, and that is yet another factor that ONLY hurts the fullstacker, whereas the shortstacker has one "default" range that is OPTIMAL for 20bb, everybody adjusts if they are good but a fullstacker can't [censored] adjust to the difference between 100bb and 20bb in his range without suffering against one or the other given the ranges are not alike at all. Get it?

[luegofuego]

nadical,

how retarded are you seriously? someone is ruining my games and cutting in to my profits by abusing an inherent flaw in the game and i should SUCK IT UP? why? seriously, al u shortstackers sound really really scared.

[nadical]

i dont ss all the time its just a good time when im drinking and dont feel liek thinking and want to get regulars mad. People cut into my profits all the time, if cts is at my table to I go make a thread about how to slay superman? nope i sit there and dilly dally untill i feel i adapted. abusing inherent flaws in the game? hahah what are you talking about i think all you guys with 100bb are screwing me over becasue i think everyone should play wiht 20!

also mdma I was confused in the first post, got it now.

[luegofuego]

wow. just wow.

[pp262]

Opening up a wide range in late position is less profitable for a shortstacker as positional advantage decreases with decreasing stack size.
By playing mathematically optimal against their opening ranges as well as adjusting your open raise sizes I think you can get to the point where it is impossible for the shortstacker to show a profit.

[VanVeen]

luego: cutting off shortstack profits would cut off more of your profits than letting them leach. really. get them removed entirely or the situation is truly hopeless. that said, given that there are only a handful of shortstackers really winning much i don't really understand the kvetching. totally out of proportion with the problem. they are not "killing" the games, although they may accelerate it.

and spite calls account for a small % of a shortstacker's overall winrate. sorry. a spite call gives a shortstacker about 2-2.5ptbb in ev (i actually think it is lower than this, prob 1.5). spite calls do not occur more than 4 times/1000 hands. a more reasonable # would be 2-3. 2*2 = 4ptbb/1000 or 0.4ptbb/100, assuming they stop completely. any shortstacker winning <2ptbb/100 is probably not going to be doing it regularly unless they are running hot, so it wont affect the big winners (those youre complaining about) much. there are some advantages to random spite calls, too.